Why Your Business Problem Is Really a People Problem

Everybody else saw a problem. He saw a business. That instinct has never left him. A pattern of behavior that has been built since you were 8 years old. People are stuck. Figuring out what the bottleneck is and then giving them the solution. I went from $219 million to $33 million. That's a very expensive education.

You know what you want to do? Who are you going to bring with you? Like, who are going to be the people? Yes, we didn't have the right process, but it was a result of not having the right people. For me, I am trying to seek out the answer that's already in the room. He was a kid, two friends, a folding table with coffee and donuts and a line of cars stuck waiting for gas during the oil embargo. Everybody else saw a problem. He saw a business. That instinct has never left him. This is Outside the Corporate Box.

Welcome to Outside the Corporate Box. I'm JMan alongside Jeffrey Scott Stanton. This episode is brought to you by our founding partners, Wise Agent, Subi and The CE Shop. These are companies that believe in what we're building here and we're grateful to have them in our corner. All right, let's get into it. The playbook is changing. The question is, are you changing with it?

This is Outside the Corporate Box, real conversations with real leaders who broke the mold and built something better, with your hosts, JMan and Jeffrey Scott Stanton. Here's what I want you to sit with today. You can be credentialed, successful, running something that works and still hit a ceiling that will not move. Today's guest hit it and then he did something about it.

Today, we're sitting down with Jamie Cornehlsen, CFA, a former mutual fund manager, a guy who built a career on precision and credentials and then walked away from it all to be in a framework he discovered sitting alone in an Airbnb in Colorado Springs. Jamie, welcome to Outside the Corporate Box. Great to be here. Thanks for the time, guys.

Thank you. And so before we get into the story, give us the plain English version. What is EOS and what does an implementer actually do? So EOS stands for the Entrepreneurial Operating System. It is a complete, proven system of simple, practical tools that have really been around for ages, but put together in a system for business owners and their leadership teams to get vision, traction, healthy. Vision: where are you going? How are you going to get there? Traction: how to execute, hold your team accountable. And healthy, because not all teams play nice together. So when you get all that going together with a leadership team, the business does better.

So I guess I've actually read about, we did the intake, I did a little research about you and research about that. Interesting. So you're literally the person in the room who gets the leaders to tell the truth about what's really going on in the business. Yeah, it's funny. I think about three, I do three things. I facilitate the conversation. I teach the tools and I coach them.

My saying is the answer is already in the room. So for a consultant, usually they've got the hammer and they're looking for the nail to hammer down. For me, I am trying to seek out the answer that's already in the room. We have good, great people running the business. It's just an idea of, hey, let's flesh that idea out and get common alignment and then storm the gates. We're really excited to tackle this next goal.

Very interesting. Very interesting. I love that. So you started your first business when you were a kid. Right. We kind of said that in the opener, during the oil embargo, for those who may not know what the oil embargo was because they weren't born yet. Paint it. Paint it for us. Like, where was the table? Who were the two friends? What were you seeing that everyone else was kind of just annoyed by? Right. Everybody's in line waiting to get gas and they're just going nuts. And you're like, hmm, opportunity's here.

Yeah. So 1979, the U.S. is having problems with the Middle East. And basically that meant that if your license plate ended in an odd number, you could go get gas on one day. If it was another number, you get gas on another day. But it meant there were lines and lines of cars. And so we got up early, with Melon Meredith and Tally Gray. And one of our fathers took us to Twin Donuts.

We got two, three gallon jugs of coffee and loaded up as many boxes of donuts as we could. And we went up and down the line selling the coffee and donuts. And it was like shooting fish in a barrel, because Starbucks wasn't around yet. And what else were they going to do in line for the next 30 minutes while they waited to get their gas?

So just to help paint a picture of this, like, what were those lines like? Because there's a lot of people born after that which have no clue, unless, like, during a hurricane. I mean, probably the closest thing is like one of those lines for gas, like when you wait for a hurricane or something to hit. Yeah. So picture this. It's a small town in Connecticut. We had one gas station in town, and the town was basically like four blocks long. So call it, you know, like a half a mile.

So there were four gas pumps and the line was four blocks down. So a half a mile, call it, of just us going back and forth with a wagon and the coffee and the donuts. But no, like, think about in this day and age, we have patience to wait five seconds for our phone to spool up, let alone wait 30 minutes to just get to the pump. Heck no.

So whose idea, like, who first came up with the idea of, let's... Like, first of all, how old were you then? Oh, let's see. I was eight. OK, so most eight year olds, hey, let's do like a lemonade stand on the corner. You said, hey, I'm going to take the captive audience of the oil embargo line. I was going to say that, a captive audience that can't go anywhere, and do coffee and donuts. Whose idea was that?

I would love to say I had the idea. But if I really think about it, I bet it was Tally Gray's father, Fred, just a fun, nutty guy, journalist in Manhattan. I'm sure he had that idea and all of a sudden we were doing this. So, because it's smart. If you try to do it as an adult, people look at you like you're weird, but you have a bunch of eight and nine year olds there, like, oh, this is a Tuesday in the world. An adult offers, you're like, go away.

All right. So fast forward, investment banking, then your own fund. What did the responsible grownup version of that coffee and donuts instinct look like? The initial impetus was, I'm sitting in a conference room, Midtown Manhattan, Bear Stearns. I hate the sound of a vacuum cleaner. My wife won't vacuum when I'm around, because that would mean that at 11 p.m. at night, I am stuck in a conference room someplace in Midtown Manhattan in Bear Stearns, trying to put out a slide deck for our clients the next day. Yeah, that sucked. And I wanted to do everything I could differently to get out of that.

And so I had this grand plan at age 28 to, one, create the fund, two, sell it to financial advisors and, three, head back to Colorado, where I went to college. Let's see, what I really found out, and something that I learned, was be willing to pivot both the idea and how you're communicating that idea really quickly. What I mean by that is, good advice. I want to go out and sell this, me. I was choosing the investments. I was selling the fund.

When I sat down with these financial advisors, I looked like I was 18 and they're saying, heck no, why am I going to give you my client's money when you look like you haven't even been to school? But I did find out, like, hey, what's really, what are you having trouble with? And consistently, they said, well, we're using variable annuities with our clients. And these are basically a structure where you take a pile of money and then it grows, but then you get a stream of money, sort of like a personalized pension, if you will, over time.

So the thing is, these advisors would have like 50 funds that they could invest in within the annuity, but they didn't know how to invest the money. And they're like, hey, I can't do it. So I'm really stuck. And after about five advisors telling me this, I'm like, I need to solve that for them. So I started doing it and I created basically like a newsletter, like, hey, for this annuity, this is what I would suggest the growth portfolio look like, the moderate portfolio and the conservative portfolio. And I started selling that.

And that was my Trojan horse, because they didn't have anything else to turn to. So they'll buy something from a 28 year old that looks like he's 18. And then we built a rapport, like, we were just having conversations and they figured out, hey, I knew something. And then they said, Jamie, you know, I love what you've done. What else could you invest for me? And at the time, they had these ETFs. No one knew what an ETF was in 2003, but I really liked them. And so I was like, well, I've got a mutual fund where I invest in the ETFs. Like, yeah, I like that. And so I slid that in and grew the business.

If I could just jump in for a point. I think you did a really smart thing. You actually asked your customers what their problems were and then found the solution. And I think way too many people in business, sales, entrepreneurs, come up like, oh, I have a solution. I have a solution. But no one has a problem for your solution. Like, no one has the problem that you're trying to solve. So I think that's a genius idea. Just ask your clients, ask your customers, like, what do you need to help us?

Well, a more recent one. I learned, don't buy a landscaping business that I can't be full time in. But I recently sold it about nine months ago. And I did what I learned in Wall Street, like, find the 10 potential buyers. And I knocked on their door and I said, hey, I want to sell this landscaping business. And you've got one. It's working great. And I think you'd be a great fit. And the responses were, I have more business than I know what to deal with. I don't need more sales and I don't need more business. Thanks, but no thanks.

I was like, well, hold on. So what are you really having problems with? I need more employees. I can't find enough employees to install what we're doing. Come back a week later. I've got nine employees for you. Would you like to buy those? I would love it. Oh, it would be great.

So I just want to point out something, a pattern of behavior that has been built since you were eight years old. People are stuck, whether they're stuck in line for the oil embargo, or it's a bottleneck in their business. You discover it and then you're like, I got the coffee and the donuts, or I got the employees, or I have the funds you should invest in. Like, so smart. Yeah, figuring out what the bottleneck is and then giving them the solution.

Yeah, it goes back to, I don't know, growing up in the 80s, James Baker, you know, Treasury Secretary, Secretary of State. His mantra was like, hey, figure out what the other person really cares about. And I've used that again and again. Like, when you figure out the why, or what the other person really wants, you build the rapport and you're solving a problem for them. And it's worked, as you've indicated. Yeah, I think that works. Every single business, every single salesperson, if you can do that, you know, the money will come. But that's great.

So I'm looking at some of your credentials here. It says CFA. Most people listening to that, including me initially, had no idea what that was, or the amount of time and effort and cost to actually get that credential designation. What is it actually considered? Officially, it's a designation. Yep. Okay. So it's Chartered Financial Analyst. It's now provided through the CFA Institute, and it's basically what analysts or portfolio managers get as their credential.

So you know, CPA for accountants, law degree, pass the bar for lawyers. This is what the mutual fund manager would get. And at the time I was going, you needed to have an accumulation of three years of work experience, but also pass three exams. And those exams were given the first Saturday of June. And so you had to sort of take it in succession.

So what do you see, just going through something like that, that certification, that designation, even though you're technically not using it now, does taking that education, taking that training and going through that rigor, does that help you with what you're doing now? And we'll get to what you're doing now. I think I'm reminded of two things. One, the managing director that I worked for before I got my MBA, he was like, Jamie, the MBA is really not going to give you much, it'll give you confidence. And I think the CFA did the same thing and even more so. It allowed me to play in any room, and like, hey, I can go toe to toe with you.

And do you think in a way, because I've encountered some things, you know, being younger looking my whole life, like, who's this kid, what does he know? Well, I'm still younger than you. But I mean, same thing in real estate, like, we have designations that we can achieve. I did that early in my career, because it helped me to have the confidence to say, I know I'm young, but here's this, this and this to back me up. You know, like, I have my CFA, right? Like, I think that's exactly what you're saying. So that regardless of whatever room you walked into, like, what are you talking about, kid? And you're like, CFA is what I'm talking about.

Well, and it's twofold. Like, I mean, one, it gives you mentally the confidence to be in the room with that person. But two, if they say, hey, you know, who are you to tell me this? Well, I've done this. Oh, it just opens that door. So good on you for, you know, taking the time, spending the money to get that done. Because it's helpful.

No. And just to jump in, totally different. So one of our sponsors is The CE Shop. And I think that's the reason why we chose them as a sponsor, is we believe in that. Hey, get educated, learn this, because even if it's not something you're using right now, just the confidence of that, I know that knowledge. It's like the first time you make a basket in a hoop, like, the first time you're playing that game, the first time you think, okay, now I can do the next one. So it helps build that confidence.

So you were building, you were growing a fund, and by definition, that's work. In the intake, you said you hit the ceiling from the inside. What do you mean? What do you mean by that? Yeah. So we started, we were bringing on five applications a week, 10 applications a week, 15 applications a week, and somewhere around 15 applications a week, we didn't have the process and systems to work with the advisors and their clients consistently.

And so I lost two big financial advisors, one in Scottsdale, Arizona, and one in Orange County. Oops. And they said, Jamie, we enjoy the fund, but you know, you're losing applications, it's taking too much time to get the client's money from our accounts to your accounts. And it's just not working. So my head's spinning. I don't know, like, how did I get this far?

And I was running something called the Accelerator program for the Entrepreneurs' Organization. This is for business owners with a million dollars or more in revenue, and you come together. But I was running their Accelerator program, and I brought in a speaker. Her name was CJ Duboff, from Minneapolis. At the time I was in Denver. And she was an EOS implementer. And she was phenomenal. And I sat there during the day saying, I need to bring her in. And I did.

And so she implemented EOS with my team. And what I learned was, yes, we didn't have the right process, but it was a result of not having the right people. The staff that I had was great at 5, 10 applications, but I needed people that had worked with bringing in 15, 20, 50 applications a week before and had that experience to get to that next level.

I just, I love that you said that, because I do a lot on leadership, and someone had said to me, I read a book, and I don't remember who said it. They'd be like, oh, you got to find out your why, your why, your why. And this book said, no, you had to find out your who. Like, you know what you want to do. Who are you going to bring with you? Like, who are going to be the people?

And I think so many entrepreneurs forget about the who. Like, you can have the greatest idea in the world, but if you don't have the who, the people. Like you said, they were great people for five and six applications, but they weren't great people for 15 or 20. And so I think that's one of the things I picked up when I started looking at the EOS, like, that's really, really smart.

So to that point, Gino Wickman's the founder of EOS. He was the who to his father, Floyd Wickman, in real estate. My idol. I will tell you this, JMan knows this. I will fanboy over Floyd. I've known Floyd for as long as I've been in real estate, 30 years. And there's very few people that you'll see me be a little fanboy, super excited. Oh, this is the greatest thing in the world. Oh, Floyd. Because he's a legend in the industry.

So when I realized who that was, I'm like, Gino, it kind of clicked when you said you worked with some real estate companies, and it clicked even more. But continue. Sorry to jump in. Floyd, if you ever get a chance to listen to this, you know, I love you. Absolutely. So Gino was Floyd's who. Floyd was great at business and teaching and all that, couldn't run the business. He brings in his son, 25 years old, and his son's like, okay, how do I, what's the structure, what's the process? And he sort of collects all these tools and he builds it to help his family business. And therefore EOS was created.

And so this was your first experience, first implementation. The best way to word this, this is your Colorado Springs moment. That's right. And so just walk us through, after that realization of you don't have the right people in place, like, what does that look like?

Well, first, I guess, let me step back, of just losing the two or three advisors before realizing that I didn't have the right people. I mean, it was grueling, because, um, I mean, it was the most expensive education. I mean, because I went from $219 million to $33 million. That's a very expensive education. And grinding it out, figured out a way, bringing CJ on and finding that sort of lightning. Like, oh, the root cause. Like, Jeffrey, to your point, it's the who. Like, we needed those whos to help with that process.

And so what's amazing, and we do this in EOS, and this is called IDS, identify, discuss and solve. When you actually get to the root cause of the issue, the solution is actually really simple. The problem is we don't take enough time to get to that root and identify that root issue. So oftentimes they're solving the symptoms, but not the root issue.

Case in point, had a client, they were an IT managed services provider. The CEO, the founder's like, oh, I'm being brought into meeting after meeting and I'm just not getting what I need to get done. And so it was a day long session I was running, and we kept going around and around, and I stopped them. I'm like, wait a minute. We've been going round and round and we haven't hit on the issue, right? What is leading up to bringing you into meetings? Like, where is that? Where's it coming from?

Well, it was the guy that was running the IT managed services for the company. And he was bringing the CEO into client meeting after client meeting. It's like, well, what's causing that? Oh, well, the IT services manager didn't have enough experience to solve the client's problems. So he was using the CEO, who was brilliant and can solve problems like that in some meetings, to do that. So our problem wasn't too many meetings for the CEO. Our problem was the guy sitting in the IT managed solution seat was not the right guy. And I think that happens a lot.

And so you're running this, you're running a fund, you're in the financial sector, and is it kind of sort of like when you start your EOS. So, like, you took a bet. You're like, hey, I'm going to jump into this EOS thing. I'm going to take the training. I'm going to get certified. I want to start implementing this. It's going to be an odd question. It's almost like you weren't the right guy for finance at the time, and you were finding you were the right guy for the EOS. Does that make sense, what I just said?

Well, so let me try and answer. Like, one thing that I realized, I love going into a business and opening up the hood and seeing how it operates. When I had the mutual fund, I had to go out and sell, and that's a whole nother story in itself. For a CFA, typically analytical, green shades, stuck in a room. That's my peaceful place. You don't go out and sort of knock on doors. Another story. To your question, I love opening up the hood of the business, seeing how it operated. With having a mutual fund, you do that with a stock and the company, and it's, are you buying it or selling it? With EOS, I got to open up the hood and then I got to fix it.

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So you realize, I'm going to do the EOS. You move to Rochester, no network. EOS, I'm going to do this and I'm going to start being EOS. I don't think they're called consultants, or do EOS training. Like, how does that, like, what's that leap like? Strategist, what does that leap like? In the sort of lead up discussion that you sent, when you know, it's not scary. It's just like the excitement, like, this is what I need to be doing. And you just go for it.

And the reality is we're dumb as all crap, because it's like we don't know all the risks and all the potholes we're going to hit. But there's just this drive, like, you know that this is what you got to be doing. It's purpose, absolutely. And when you find that purpose, it's like, I'm going to smash through that cement wall because it's purpose.

So why Rochester? I'm sorry, Jamie. I have to ask the question. I love Rochester. I know. I know you do. That's what I had. It's like, of all the places you could have went to, why Rochester? Did you know anybody there? Why there?

Yeah, so I came to Rochester to get my MBA, met my wife here. I moved to Denver, told her, hey, I'm moving to Denver. This is before we were married. She joins me about a year later, start the business there, and we were trying to have kids, couldn't have kids, realized we needed to adopt. If we were going to do that, we wanted to be closer to my wife's family. So we returned to Rochester, had a hard time adopting.

I go out on a business trip. I'm in Mexico at this business trip. I call my wife just before we go out to dinner, and her mom focuses the phone, this is nine and a half years ago, on a four and a half pound kid. And I'm like, holy cow, because a week ago, it wasn't on the radar. So I immediately fly back, and we were in line to adopt this child.

But I knew we had made the right decision to be in Rochester and close to family when, the first night I was back, the first day we had taken him to the doctor and all that, we come back and my wife's just like, oh, I'm exhausted. I'm sick. I'm like, you go to bed, you get better. I will take care of the feedings tonight and all that.

He wakes up in the middle of the night and I try and get to his room and I can't do it. I've got whatever my wife had. I'm crawling to his room. He keeps crying. I can't even stand up to change his diaper, give him food. About 15 minutes later, my wife crawls in, because she's sick as a dog. We call her mom at 2:37 in the morning and she's there 15 minutes later. That's why we came to Rochester. And that's why I live here still today. Same thing, family. My parents are here. I grew up here.

So you went from a CFA fund manager to a title most people in, let's call it your old world, never heard of. How did the people in that world respond? "Hey, I'm doing this." What were some of the responses to that? Did you just leave it all behind? What was that segue like? I was just so excited to be a part of feeling like I was really creating value.

For example, one of my first clients, local in Rochester, a dentist. He really had big dreams, wanted to open up 10 locations. He was at two, but he's like, "Jamie, I'm working six days a week in the chair. We're not getting what I want from the business, and I don't have time to coach my kids' sports. And I'm just in a world of mess." Start working with them. Nine months later, where I had a quarterly meeting, I walk in and he's like, "Jamie, I'm only in the chair two days a week. I'm coaching my son's lacrosse and my daughter's softball. And I'm making more money than I ever have."

It didn't matter what that designation was, or being in the mutual fund. I just created value. Along the way, it was a ton of fun and we did great work. Love it. I think the root of all that is you're making a difference and you get to see it firsthand.

You built a career on technical skill, like you said before, figuring things out. Now you have to do business development from scratch in a city where you had no one to call. Maybe you had some old business contacts. Did you go to the Simon Business School? Yeah, that's where I went. Ah, see, my sister worked there. Small world. But give me a specific day, not the strategy at the moment, but what did a Tuesday in the Roc look like, for those Rochester folks, for those that aren't from here, when the phone wasn't ringing? Because you're so used to this really busy business and now it's like you're waiting.

Yeah, I'm going to rewind to that sort of same stage at the mutual fund level, because I was not a salesperson whatsoever. In fact, at 18, I was sort of the math guy, the science guy, nerdy guy. And my stepfather, he was a salesperson, and at some point he says, Jamie, even if you want to be a CFO, you're going to have to learn how to sell. You're going to have to learn how to sell your idea in the boardroom and to whoever. You're going to learn how to sell. Like, okay. I mean, and I remember that.

So I start the mutual fund and I bring on an advisory board, two guys. One, Mackenzie guy, he was a CFO of a health plan out in California, and I brought in this guy Townsend Wardlaw, who I had met. He had a sales training business and it was great. And so he started to train me on his system and what to do. And basically at the time, he was like, you're just going to get a bunch of phone numbers of financial advisors, and you're going to start calling. And he's like, I wish I could take you to the bar and you just start asking women out on a date. At the time, I was married. So not really a great idea.

The third call I made, I connected with a financial advisor in Boulder, Colorado. And she was like, you're reading from a script, aren't you? I'm like, yeah. And she's like, you call me back when you know the script and you can just talk freely. I put down the phone and I'm shaking there for the next 10 minutes. But I kept picking up the phone and kept dialing. And I've made so many calls that it's ridiculous. And the thing is, it's just getting over that fear, because we always feel like we're intruding.

And, like, oh, they're going to remember. Several years in, we bring in sort of the clients, our financial advisors, and there's one from St. Louis. And we're all at dinner. I have like 10 financial advisors at dinner and we're having a good time. And everyone's asking like, oh, how do you get your clients? Well, I talked to them about this story, and it's like, so you call people? I don't remember you calling me.

And so the next day I walk them back into my office. I pull up Salesforce, you know, CRM for calls, and I'm like, here's how many times we called you before we connected. It was 76 calls before I connected with them. It's like, what? I don't remember any of them. Just goes to show, like, when you're selling, it might feel like, you might feel anxious and scared about, like, oh, they're going to be mad at me. They're not going to like what I want to talk to them about.

But I learned right at that moment, like, you know, they might be having a bad day. Their kids might be in the hospital, their daughter was like rejected by the eight year old at the dance, whatever. You're not part of that problem. So just call, pick up the phone, have the conversation. And they don't remember the 75 times that you called beforehand when they were nasty with you and just hung up the phone. It's just that one time, right time, right place, that 76th time. I love that. Exactly.

Fast forward, right to Rochester, sort of the same thing. Built out the list, just started talking to people. Now with that said, I got two clients right immediately. And then for the next six months, I didn't get a client. That was hard. Like, the head trash, like, what am I doing wrong? What's not working? And yeah, that's not easy. And as business owners, we all go through those black moments.

Well, you told us that there were two difficult times in your business that shaped you, right? Take me to the one that came closest to ending it, like, I'm done. Like, what happened? Yeah, I mean, that was like the downturn with the mutual fund business going from 219 to 33. Had three large advisors pull their money, and the realization, like, how did we even get there, to retrace that far?

And the first thing is just, like, have grace for yourself. And I think just make sure you have the, I mean, going to a therapist and her saying to me, Jamie, make sure you get some exercise, get some sleep and eat. Just do that. And so one thing, I'm like, okay, I had something else to focus on, as opposed to, like, what am I doing wrong? And so I just started doing that. So that helped. Yeah.

The next part was, like, with EOS, it's like, okay, this is what I can fix. And just the intentionality and the alignment of the team. Like, I had a good team, and, you know, we took the time to create the vision, the next vision, and to put our goals in place. To get that alignment says a lot. Like, when everyone can be aligned with, like, what's that North Star, it means something. Like, you have that common enemy, quote unquote, and you build some excitement and interest around that.

I love that. And so you also said, like, entrepreneurship is either in you, it can't be taught, but you also said reinvention is born from necessity and built with mindset. So one says you're born with it. The other says you build it. Which one? Which one do you feel? Yeah. Which one do you feel is true? Or can they both be true?

I think they're both true, from the standpoint of, like, so many business schools have started up like, oh, you want to become an entrepreneur? Take this class. I think you just have to have that inherent willingness to take risk. Like, some people have it. Some people don't. That's not a problem. It is what it is. I do find that those people that are willing to take risks are just natural sort of problem solvers. And they do find, like, hey, if this isn't working, I'm going to find a way to fix it and change it. And that's sort of inbred in their DNA, how they are, in their DNA.

Now with that said, can people like the accountants of the world or the engineers of the world, who are more structured in that way? They can definitely learn that. That's a huge opportunity. Yeah. And I think we've seen that a lot on this podcast, where it's one of two people. The one who says, you know, the Lauren who says, I'm leaving because I want to start my own. Or the person who got laid off and said, you know what, I have to provide for my family. So this is what I'm going to do. And then they make it happen because they have no other choice, like you said.

So Jamie, I want to take it a little bit different. So it said that there's something you don't really share and speak about publicly, about a stretch in your life. And I think it called it, like, crying on the front porch. Tell us a little about that. What was the leading up to that?

Yeah, that was, I mean, that was going back to that mutual fund. Just one day, my wife and I had a house more downtown. The office was in the Denver Tech Center. So I would take the light rail, and it was just, I guess, a really hard day. And I took the light rail home and I walked back the five or six blocks, and there were like three cement steps. And then, um, a walkway up to the wooden steps for the house.

I can remember just getting to the cement steps and sort of, like, turning around, just, like, exhausted, mentally and physically. I just felt like I couldn't walk those stairs, and just sat down and put my head in my hands and just started crying. Like, this was tough.

And were you there by yourself? Did anyone see this? Like, did your wife come out? No, I mean, I don't remember seeing anyone. I mean, it was, we had neighbors and stuff and people would walk, and just by happenstance no one was there. And so that was like the bottom, for sure. That day, that time.

So we go from the bottom to one of the things you said you're the most proud of in the intake, which was that you had a client who actually became an EOS implementer. Normal people are like, oh, that's going to be a competitor, you know, a client now is going to be my competition. One, the EOS implementer community is an amazing community. It's very supportive. We talk immensely about having an abundance mindset, and I think that really flows through, probably from Floyd Wickman, but then to Gino.

And, like, even though we each have our own businesses, not unlike, you know, if you were in real estate, you might be affiliated with a franchise, right? But it's really a part of the ethos within EOS that, hey, you have an abundance mindset and you try and support that. And it's fun to see, like, your client loving EOS so much, and the systems and the process, and they saw success. Like, hey, they can see their next chapter doing this. And it's fun to see.

And so you signed off your intake with three words that I keep coming back to. And one thing I've learned about you so quickly is, like, very concise, to the point and well thought out, would be, if I had to describe you in a few sentences. But three words: connect people, purpose and passion. Is that something you live by, or something you figured out the hard way when you were sitting on the porch?

Yeah, no. I was working with a coach, Mike Valentine, in Denver, and through it, like, trying to find some excitement from where I was. And through his process, he was like, you light up. Like, your energy level really expands when you talk about connecting people and ideas. And therefore, you know, me and him worked together to find that phrase of connecting people, purpose and their passion.

What I love about EOS is, when we start a business, it's not like my son starting school two days ago. It's like, okay, here's your reading list in fourth grade. Here's what we're going to do in math. No one hands you the manual when you open up the business, right? Whether you're starting your real estate business or accounting business, whatever, no one hands you that manual. So I find that EOS is a great way for people to carve their journey, to make business a whole lot easier.

So a business owner listening right now is at the ceiling. They just don't know it yet. What's the one signal that kind of tells them, like, hey, you got to do something here? That landscaper who doesn't have enough people for the business that's demanding of him, or somebody like that.

Yeah. I mean, I often find, first off, that those business owners are frustrated with their people. They're not getting what they want from their business, and they've tried a bunch of things. Or they went in thinking, like, oh, I'm going to get a salary and the benefits of owning the business, and they're just not getting that. So those are the frustrations, the keys, the red flags. There's help. You're not alone. Like, there's tons and tons of business owners that have been in that same place, me included. And there's a way out from that.

Like, if somebody was going to leave a credentialed career, like, someone's going to jump, like, no one in the world understood, what would be the one big bit of advice you'd give somebody who's going from a CPA, financial planner, whatever, and it's like, hey, I'm going to start my own thing? What would be the one piece of advice you'd give them? Yeah. What should they have in place, if you will? Like, if they were planning that exit.

I think what wins over is just that you're super excited about whatever that next step is. If you're super excited, you'll figure it out. But you need that excitement, because that excitement needs to carry you through those hard times, and there are going to be hard times. Guaranteed.

Okay. So you're excited and you moved to Rochester and you have no network, zero people that you know. I'm excited. Like, what are the first three moves, the real ones, not like, hop on LinkedIn and find people within your, you know. What are the first three things you did, or someone should do?

For me, it was like trying to establish that network. So I'm figuring out, like, quickly on, I started connecting with a bunch of networking groups, and the reality is it didn't work at all. But it was just good to get out in the network. One of the things that really worked was, one of those first clients was completely skeptical, like, is this going to work? And I'm like, it absolutely is. And, like, rather than pay me, pay me at the end, pay me once you get the results. And I was like, I have that confidence that this will get done.

And he's like, every time, like, for the next couple of months, he just was questioning, like, what's your motivation here? Because I'm not paying you yet. Like, I'm like, I know this is going to work. And it did. And once he's like, Jamie, I'm paying you now, and writing that check, he's like, now I get it. And he had no qualms about writing that check, because his life was that much better.

Like, for the first time in three years, he saw sales growth. For the first time in three years, his team was super excited and aligned. For the first time in three years, his team didn't cringe or get white knuckled because they're like, oh, a new client's coming on board, how are we going to screw this up? I mean, he was confident about all that. He was like, Jamie, I'm writing you this check, but now I get it.

So I just said, hey, like, you're going to pay me, but if you don't feel comfortable, or if you're not getting what you want, don't pay me. But I'm going to do this for you and your company. And it works. So what I'm hearing you say is believe in what you're doing and everything else will fall into place.

All right. Next is our lightning round. This is going to be fun, quick. Just first thing that comes to mind. Okay. Coffee and donuts, CFA, EOS, one word that connects all three. The term is connecting people, purpose and passion. The word: solutions. Book that changed how you think about leadership, and you can't say Traction. Um, Never Split the Difference. Oh, Voss. Good one. Good one. Good book.

Rochester, no network, worst week. Go. Worst week. It's snowy. It's dark and I didn't have anything on my calendar. Not really motivated to do something. I pick up the phone and just start talking to people I know, like, hey, how are you doing? And talking about, like, what are their issues?

And I remember helping this one business owner. I didn't help her with the EOS, but I just walked through the pain that they were having. This was in the investment world, because I was coming from investment, so that's how I knew her. And she was putting decks together for investors. And I said, well, don't worry about sort of, like, spending that extra 20%. You're 80% of the way there. Like, you've done a lot of the good work. Don't rehash that last 20%. You've done a really good job. And she's like, wow, I've been spending so many hours working on the last 20%. And I was supercharged, and that got me through that dark week.

Very cool. What does the company look like six months after you stopped working with them with the EOS? Yeah. One, it's often changed. Like, the leadership team, there's usually one person that's not there, or a new person that's there. And that person change makes a difference too. They're communicating for the first time, and really talking to each other.

Okay. That brings us to the last question, Jamie, same one we close every episode with. What would you go back and tell yourself on day one? Don't listen to your mind.

So before we go, you have a book people should know about, right? Tell us where they can find it, if they're listening or watching. This quarterly conversation. Yeah. So it's not yet out, but I've been working on a book that sort of falls in line with EOS. Within EOS we have what's called the quarterly conversation. It's a way of getting to know your employees better, but getting alignment and connected. And so I am working on publishing that shortly.

Okay. So depending on when you're listening to this or watching it, we're going to put it in the show notes so you can get some of the first copies. And if you're in the ROC, maybe Jamie has a book signing somewhere. That's right. There you go. Right. And we can see him in person. Get that signed.

Where can they find you if they want to learn more about EOS implementation? Yes. So probably the best way is just put in EOS and Jamie Cornehlsen. Tough thing to spell. But Cornehlsen, C O R N E H L S E N. The tough one's the H. So EOS and Jamie Cornehlsen, and you'll get to my site. And we'll put that in the show notes. We'll put a direct link in the show notes also. Thanks, guys. Thank you, everyone.

If today hit, share it. Send it to a business owner you know who's running at the ceiling right now. They need to hear this. Subscribe if you have not already. And next Monday we're sitting down with another great someone that went outside the corporate box. You don't want to miss it.

But before we let you go, we want to say thank you to our founding partners, Wise Agent, Subi and The CE Shop. They make the show possible, and they're building tools that actually help people in our industry. Check them out. All the links are in the show notes. And thank you, Jamie. Again, it was great, thanks for spending time with us. And thank you, everyone, for listening. It's not something we take lightly. Now go make it happen.