Her Rules, Her Business

Yeah. Yeah. The second time definitely was. I walked into the plant manager's office and said, "I'm not coming back." "I've heard from her straight. She is threatened by what you've done, and she feels like you're going to surpass her very quickly, and she doesn't want that."

To a point, you said it was almost crippling. Tell me about this. Why do you think it is?

I helped a buyer get an accepted offer on a property, and the impostor syndrome started in. It's a $435,000 price point. Megan, you don't work at that price point.

And a lot of times with impostor syndrome, it's "I'm not good enough." The folks who listen to it too much are the ones that get held in the same place their entire lives. Do you think maybe that impostor syndrome might be stopping you a little bit from doing that?

Exactly. Yep. That's exactly what it is, because I doubt whether I can lead a whole team of agents to their own success. Why can't I bring on agents that can be successful?

Welcome to Outside the Corporate Box. I'm JMan, alongside Jeffrey Scott Stanton, and this episode is brought to you by our founding partners, Wise Agent, Subi, and the CE Shop. These are the companies that believe in us and what we're building here, and we're grateful to have them in our corner.

The playbook is changing. The question is, are you changing with it? This is Outside the Corporate Box. Real conversations with real leaders who broke the mold and built something better, with your hosts JMan and Jeffrey Scott Stanton.

Our guest today has left real estate twice, built it from scratch twice. And here's the thing nobody tells you: the second time is harder. Not because the market is tougher, because you actually know what you're doing. And you have to decide if the version of yourself you became in the meantime is the person that you want to run your business. This is Outside the Corporate Box.

And so today we're sitting down with Megan VonDeylen. Did I get that right? Megan VonDeylen. Close enough. Ah, man. Close. Broker and owner of Stone Realty Group in Michigan. Now, I could tell you about her business, her credentials, her trajectory, but really what I really want to talk about is what it looks like when someone builds the same thing twice, and the second time does it completely differently. Megan, welcome to Outside the Corporate Box.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

So paint the picture for us. Before anything changed the first time, what did your world look like? What, you know, what was your career in those early real estate years like? What was the year, and what did it look like?

Well, I got my license in 2008, with the downturn of the market. Great time. And built pretty slowly, because I was... yeah, I know. I learned a lot very quickly. And I was a mom of three young kids. My youngest one was two, and then the next one was four, and the oldest one was six. And so it was kind of part-time at that point in time, because I was trying to juggle home and the kids, and I had a lot of horses at that point, so I was taking care of all of that.

I built it based on what I was told I was supposed to do. So I did what my broker told me, acted like she told me to, talked like she told me to, dressed like she told me to, because that's what she said I had to do. And I thought that that's how you did it then, if you were being told by the broker, right? And so I did build slowly because of the kids. I was trying to spend as much time with them as I could.

And I did that for about 10 years. The 10th year I was basically in it full-time, because I built up to full-time as the kids got older. By 10 years in, they're all teen or pre-teen. And it was very, very fast-paced, because I had no systems in place, because she told me who I had to be and what I had to do, but nothing about systems.

So I was actually pretty successful. I got a lot of awards. I was with Century 21 back then, because I had switched brokers. I finally got wise. Everything that she said wasn't necessarily the best way for me. So I had switched brokers, and I was with Century 21 at that point in time, and was topping in my brokerage and doing really well. And then my husband lost his battle with PTSD, to the point of having to go into a mental institution for veterans, because he is a veteran. He's a combat veteran with PTSD. And at that point in time, I had to switch gears. At least I felt like I had to.

Did you have a career before you got into real estate, or were you a mom and then just jumped into real estate?

Actually, the first time I left corporate was just before I got into real estate. I had gotten a degree in accounting, and a job as an accountant, or in accounting, with a medical billing company that handled strictly medical billing for home health aides. And they had created a position that they hired me for, to catch up an 18-month backlog. And I got that done in 90 days.

You had that done in 90? Wow.

Yep. I had learned their system and got everything caught up. And so during my 90th day review, I came into a pink slip and a letter of recommendation, side by side.

Thank you for helping us. You can leave, buddy. Did a great job, and here's your letter of recommendation. So what, why did you jump into real estate? Why real estate, in a time where the market is crashing?

At that point in time, we didn't see... we saw a little bit of it, and my husband and I thought we could capitalize, because we both had good jobs that weren't going anywhere. So we thought we might be able to capitalize on it. We got pre-approved for a mortgage, because we were attempting to buy my parents' place, but we couldn't get pre-approved for enough. I did end up selling that later, after I got my license.

So we were going through the process of trying to buy a home, and I lost my job. So I had to call my realtor and tell her that. And so her words to me were, "Well, don't give up. See if you can still qualify on just his. But you also need to think about, since you're looking at having to switch jobs, you should get into real estate. You find out as much information as I do before we go see these houses. Sometimes you have more information than I do. So I think you would do well at this." So that's what I ended up doing. I ended up getting into real estate.

So then jumping back to 10 years into it, husband, PTSD, and continue the story from there.

So I felt like I needed to give the kids the stability, and without his job... because when he went in, he went catatonic at the VA hospital. And after they checked him in and everything, he refused to talk to anybody about anything, other than to answer basic questions. He would answer yes or no questions, and that was it. And so the doctors were telling me he may end up being a lifer, that I needed to think about that.

So he was going to lose his job, we were going to lose our healthcare, we were going to lose the steady income that at that point really wasn't paying the bills. But I felt like the health insurance and the steady hours that I could get in some sort of a corporate job would be more important to the kids, because with only one parent home, there had to be some sort of stability. So I did that. I went into management. I was a manager for a Menards distribution center, managed a department there.

But he ended up getting out in like eight days. There's a whole other story behind that, but he ended up getting out in eight days, and he got a job there in maintenance as well, because he was on the verge of losing the other job. So he quit there to go to the maintenance job, and he's still there. He still works in maintenance at that Menards distribution center now.

And so I only was in that distribution center as a manager for like three years before I realized, and it wasn't an altogether realization, it was one of those that built over time, that the environment there was not one that I would be allowed to thrive. I was turning in all sorts of improvement suggestions. I was turning around departments, every department that I went to, because you have to switch departments when you work there. You can't just stay in one. And so every department I went to, their numbers improved, and they became the best department in the plant. And then I would switch departments, and that department would become the best department.

Actually, to the point where I got a call from John Menard himself at one point, because he was asking and trying to figure out how I was performing the numbers I was performing. And I answered his question satisfactorily. So that went well, but not well enough for me to stay. And I was head-hunted into a materials management position, because I had talked to some friends about not being happy there, trying to figure out what my next move was. And so one of them, she was the one that had hunted me into it, she said, "I've got the perfect position for you." So I came into the plant that she had been working in.

There were 25 lines in this plant, and I was working for corporate in this materials management position. So what they had planned on doing was starting me there and then having me do the same thing in all of the plants.

Almost like a management in training type of thing. Start here, learn the ropes, and then we'll...

I had never done materials management. I had retail management, distribution management, and, you know, accounting, and by that time I had a finance and business management degree as well, because I had done that while I was selling real estate, raising kids, dealing with my husband's PTSD, and every rodeo too. So the materials management position, I came in with 25 lines in that plant, and three were operational when I came in. Within 90 days, I had 24 lines up and running. The last line was not up and running because my direct boss cancelled the payment to a vendor, so we could not produce anything on that line.

Well, I want to go back for a second, because you mentioned something there where you said it was an environment where "I felt like I could no longer thrive," or something like that. Tell us a little bit more about that. Like, what do you mean by that?

I don't want to throw Menards DCs under the bus, but the Menards environment and management is very male-centric. It's very hard for them to allow a female to rise through the ranks. So between that and the fact that I only had one more promotion left, and I was not allowed to promote any further because of their policies on how couples could function in their company. I was not allowed to be a boss over my husband. I could promote one more time, and then I was not allowed to promote anymore, because I would be his boss, and they wouldn't allow that.

So you felt the ceiling. You're like, you saw it. Not just felt it, you saw it, and you were limited in your growth. So that's kind of what made you make the switch. And then from there, you got back, after doing another great job in a time frame that was less than expected, you exceeded expectations, and then still said, "Ah, this isn't for me."

It was when that boss, my boss, had cancelled the payment to the vendor. Without telling me. So I'm calling the vendor, trying to figure out why they're not shipping, looking like a fool, because she didn't tell me she had cancelled the payment. If she had come to me and said, "We have to cancel this payment because of," whatever her reasoning was, it would have been a different scenario. But she just chose to cancel the payment, and then I'm running around trying to figure out why we can't get this last line up and running.

And just the way that all happened, it was too much for me to feel like I was going to have any potential for growth there either. Because if I couldn't meet the goals that I had set for myself... which, I had already exceeded their goals, but they wanted me to have half the lines up and running by the end of 90 days, and I had all but one up.

So that's my question. So you have two corporate jobs, and you're outperforming what's expected of you in both jobs. Did you feel successful?

So the real reason that I didn't feel successful is because I base my success on how those I'm leading feel. And when they are frustrated because our goals can't be met... and they were in line with me on a lot of these goals. They said, we'll bust what the boss says, and we'll get it, but we'll get it done faster.

Shared vision.

So their disappointment, their frustration really is what made me feel unsuccessful, because they were the reason I was able to get there. If just getting the materials in for the materials management job wasn't enough, the lines had to be up and running, which means that everybody on those lines had to be on board with making sure that everything was being done to run that product. And that lines up and running meant that tests had been done, everything was running successfully, you know, the part rate.

The team's working together.

Mhm. And I can't do that if I'm being held back by somebody making a job to not send a check when it's supposed to be sent.

As you say, somebody's squeezing the corporate box a little too tightly.

Yep.

No, I was going to say it sounds like they need to listen to Jeffrey's leadership series.

Right. But so to me, it doesn't feel successful if the people that are working with me don't feel like we're going to be able to meet and maintain. And then the ceilings on top of it, it was more than I could handle for myself. It just was one of those rabbit holes my mental health would have gone down, and I wasn't willing to take that risk of, you know, the mental health battle I would have been facing.

I'm assuming that was the final straw, and then, like, back into real estate. But why not stay in corporate?

Because I realized it was a me problem.

I mean, self-awareness is a great thing, because most people don't have self-awareness. Me problem. It's a me problem.

It's a me problem. I cannot do the corporate structure where you're constantly held down, because to them, it feels like they're holding you to a standard. But to me, it feels like that standard is too low, and I need to be able to raise that standard. And if I'm not allowed that growth, then I can't function there.

I like that you said the standard's too low, because I always say, when people don't get what they want, even in a company or personally, it's not because your standards are too high, it's because your standards are too low. So I like that you said that. They kept you down because their standards were lower than you wanted them to do. So you jump back into real estate.

Mhm.

You said the first time that you were in real estate, you listened to someone else as far as what to do, what to wear, what to say. What did that persona look like the first time you were in real estate, versus when you came back and decided to jump back into real estate the second time?

So the first persona was more of a mild, meek, mild-mannered soccer mom type that I had to assume. You guys know me.

That's not you.

No, I have never been that way. I was the girl that brought roadkill to put on people's hoods at high school during the senior year as part of the senior pranks. So I drove a loud truck. I had a gun rack in it, because back then we were allowed to bring those things to school. So that was not me. So I had to wear the cardigans and the little shoes that slip off easily, and slacks, and it just was not me. And I had to keep my mouth shut a lot, which is really hard for me.

And the second time, when I got back into it, I decided that I needed to be authentic to myself. If it meant that my muddy boots sat outside of the house, or, you know, I carried an extra pair of slip-on shoes to wear into the house because I had muddy boots on my way there, then that's how it was. Ninety percent of the time now, when I'm showing a house to a client, even when I show up for listing appointments, I have a ball cap on. Probably maybe 10 to 15% of the time do I not have a hat on. So that's part of who I am. I've always got a hat.

Today I had a bandana on my head, like bikers do. I'm covered in tattoos. I show up with a jean jacket on and jeans on. That's who I am at my core. And the biggest part of it that helped me was not just how I dressed. It's because who I am at my core is somebody who's honest, has integrity, and wants to help people genuinely. And that's where my client base comes from.

Well, and I think, like what you said there, when you're comfortable, right, when you're allowed to be your true authentic self, your clients see that, right? And you can communicate better, and the relationship's better, and you have better rapport, and you can work by referral. Rather than, like you said before, like, you're stifled and you're limited and you're in this box, and they're like, this is what you have to be.

So much freedom.

And this is all you can be, you know. And I think that's the thing about the corporate box. You said this, you know, to me it's weird, because the first time you weren't in the corporate box, but somebody, your original broker, was kind of trying to stick you into their box. And then you went inside the corporation and kind of got stifled again, where you couldn't excel at everything you can. And then back, hey, I'm going to do this again, the second time around. That's pretty cool.

And it's been so much better for my clients, because I am not censoring and auditing myself the entire time I'm talking with them. I'm actually free to think about what's best for them in the transaction, how the next steps need to look, and explain things to them. I mean, it's not like I go through houses dropping f-bombs, but I do talk like my normal self, rather than censoring myself all the time as far as, you know, the way I say things. So it's just been so much better.

When did you decide, like, the second version of the business gets built on the real you? Was it just, like, I'm going back in, I'm just going to do me, that's it?

Were you working for... did you go back in working for a broker, or did you get your...

Yeah, I went back in with eXp. I had a buddy of mine that I'd went to high school with that was working for eXp. Said great stuff about them. So I knew that Century 21's model wasn't exactly what I wanted. I was very experienced with all the brokerages in my county. So I wanted something that was not in my county, which, our board is our county, so I wanted something that was outside of that.

And to hop back to the whole being held into the box thing, and deciding to do it my way, that cancelled check was really the catalyst of it all, because that was what made me decide that my career, no matter what I chose, needed to be built off of my foundation, and not what somebody else told me I had to use for a foundation.

That's a true entrepreneur right there. Like, hey, I'm gonna succeed or fail based upon me, not upon someone else saying. And more importantly, being the authentic you, not a made-up you, not something else. Like, hey, I'm going to do this, and do this on my own.

Yeah. I mean, you said in your intake, results, and we're hearing it again, like, results are your real security. Unpack that.

I mean, I touched on it a little bit when I was talking about how those that work with me... you can say under, but it's never under. They have to work with you, and they have to feel like they're working with you. My results when I was working in the corporate job were how they felt the job was going, how they felt the successes were going, you know, and what they thought we needed to do for improvement. I always have been one to get as much feedback from them as possible. People that I'm working with make or break the job. I'm one person. A team is there for a reason.

Whether you're talking about, you know, a single real estate transaction, where you and your clients are, and their lender, if it's a lender, you know, if they're buyers, it's the lender, or whoever, that transaction is based off of how well your team operates. And just like in corporate, your team is going to define your success. So the results to me are how that team makes it to that success. Right? Because to me, failure is not an end. Failure is another opportunity to learn, to get to success. So there was no such thing when I went back in a second time to real estate.

I just wrote that down, by the way.

Go for it. Make sure you quote me.

We're all instructors here. You quote the person once, then it just becomes yours going forward. It's fine.

There you go. Yeah. No, that was the thing to me, is that there is no such thing as true failure, because you take what you learned from that failure, and you build the next success on it. So the feedback that I get from people is really the result. Because if it's a transaction, once you get to that finish line of the closing table, the result is, how does your client feel? And that's the success or the failure at that point, and that's where I know that feedback is how I know what I need to improve.

And so being good at it is your security.

Right. Knowing that you can get it done, and, you know, being the breadwinner for your family for 16-plus years, three kids, rodeo. And folks, when she says horses, she really means horses. Not figuratively speaking, okay? It's not like "hold your horses."

You see the saddles in the background?

Yeah.

That is my roping saddle.

For real. Quick shout out to one of our founding partners, the CE Shop. Look, continuing education doesn't have to feel like a punishment. The CE Shop provides online real estate education that actually makes sense. Pre-licensing, post-licensing, continuing education, all of it built to fit your schedule, so you can keep your career moving forward without putting your business on pause. Check them out at the ceshop.com link in the show notes, and be sure to tell them that JSquared sent you.

So the pressure for something stable, guaranteed, and we hear it a lot, the benefits. I think the benefits are the last thing that keep people somewhere. It's like, I would have quit this job long ago if I didn't have these benefits. But how does someone under that pressure still make the call to leave the security of a salary, twice? Because I think the first time really wasn't your choice, but the second time definitely was, right?

Yeah. Yeah. The second time definitely was. I walked into the plant manager's office and said, "I'm not coming back."

I could see, like, take this job and shove it.

She was actually under me, because I was corporate and she was only plant, but we worked well together, and she was happy with what I did, because I helped her plant out. They went from in the red to very in the black in a short amount of time. So she was on board with whatever I wanted to do. So when I walked in to talk with her, I told her the situation, and I said, "I feel like a fool, having talked to these vendors about why they weren't shipping, when somebody else could have easily just knocked on my office door." There was literally a door between my office and hers. She could have knocked on my door, opened it up, and said, "Hey, by the way, we can't pay that right now because," or just, "We can't pay that right now." You know? And she didn't.

So when I was talking to the plant manager about it, I said, "I can't work in that kind of an environment." And she said to me, she says, "Honestly, that's going to keep happening, because she is threatened by what you've done. I've heard from her straight. She is threatened by what you've done, and she feels like you're going to surpass her very quickly, and she doesn't want that." And I said, "Okay, well, I'm not playing those high school games. After I clock out today, I'm not coming back." And she said, "That's probably your best choice. I'm gonna miss you, but I don't want to see you get canned because she decides to do something to sabotage you."

I think that's the constraint of a lot of corporate, is the people above you. And, I do the podcast on leadership, and it's the people above you are afraid that you're going to rise above them. And I think that's what happens when you're in that corporate box, is that somebody steps in and says, "Well, this person knows what they're doing, and they may make me look bad. Therefore, I'm probably going to make them an issue and have an issue with it." And so I think that's a lot of reasons why.

And again, because a lot of people that listen to these are people like, "Hey, I have a full-time job now. What should I do?" And I think that's a good point of, then, are you working from someplace where, you know, you're smarter than and truly better than the people around you, and that's going to be, like, the choking point of you moving up in your career, or doing something else?

Mhm. Yep. So the thing that I went with for a motto, sorry, geek, but when I jumped back in with both feet was, there is no try, only do.

Yoda.

Actually, we are all big geeks around here, and one of my daughters named one of her dogs Yoda.

He's got the matching ears.

You had said it before, that it's like you can't fail, like, you're learning from it. And that's one of my core fundamental beliefs, is there's no such thing as failure. There's only feedback. You know, you did it, it didn't work, you try something different, or you do something different and see what the outcome is. That doesn't work, you do something different and see what the outcome is. And I think once you start to realize that, I think you're so much more successful. That, hey, I'm gonna do this, and if it doesn't work, I'll figure out why it doesn't work, and I'll do it again. And, you know, maybe that's why you went from corporate to real estate, to corporate, and then back into real estate.

I think part of it that has fueled me to be successful in a lot of things is, it's a stupid quote from my dad. If you stop learning, you die. And he said it kind of off the cuff, in a situation that wasn't that dire. It wasn't a real serious situation. So it was meant as a funny, but I took it to heart. If you stop learning, you die. And so, if you stop learning in your career, it dies. So it's one of the things that's always fueled my success, is that I can learn from this and make it better next time.

Talk to us about the veteran piece of your business, right? It's not just a target demographic, like some people have. Like, you spoke on it already, your husband is a veteran. Like, how does that shape the work and what you do?

So, one of the things that I say... we all develop sayings, right? I tried really, really hard when I was a teenager to get into the armed forces. I wanted to serve. But I'm completely deaf in my left ear, and I went to every recruiter: what can we do to get around that? And I think it was the Marine recruiter, the third one I saw, that said to me, "You can't have anybody's six. It doesn't matter what we do. You can't have anybody's six," because I don't have directional hearing.

So a lot of people are not going to know what that means.

Oh, yeah. Sorry.

I understand. I have it tattooed on me. So, "got your six," it's military. IGY6. Yep.

And it's just basically meaning you have their back. So, a lot of times when you see the military ops movies, where they're back to back, going through rooms with the guns up, so that, you know, they're searching through, and that's literally what it means. Having somebody's six is having their back and making sure that you're watching out for them. And so that's what he meant to me, is that you can't fully protect anybody, watch out for anybody, help anybody, in a bad situation, if you can't hear out of that ear. It doesn't matter what medical devices, because it's nerve deafness. There was absolutely no way.

So I am the granddaughter of two veterans. I've got multiple uncles that were veterans. My dad missed it. He thanked the Lord that he missed it, because he did not want to serve, but I did. And so when I married my husband, I knew he was a veteran. And I didn't marry him because of that, obviously, because I know they're trouble. But I went through so much with him, and then we went through so much, because back when we were trying to buy a house, getting a VA loan was so difficult, we ended up flipping to a rural development loan instead.

So I started doing a lot more within the realtor community, and we've changed a lot of things with legislation in the realtor community, by, you know, just talking to legislators about it. And now a VA loan is actually easier to get at this point, thanks to the changes that were made on May 1st. It's easier to get than an FHA or an RD loan.

There's something I want to mention about this, because you hear a lot of people say, "Oh, the deal, it's a VA loan. I don't know how good it is." If you look at the study that's done for performance of all loans, there is a significantly less default rate on a VA guaranteed loan than there is on any other type of loan. You compare a VA loan, a person serving in the military using their eligibility, getting a home and putting nothing down, has a better rate of completion of paying that mortgage than someone putting 40 or 50 or 60% down. I think that says a lot about that whole entire community.

Yeah. And the ones that do default, I am 100% sure, if a study was done, the findings would say that mental health was a major contributor in the default.

I would agree. I would agree with you.

So, but anyways, my saying that I was getting to, I apologize, I sidetracked myself, but what I was getting to is that, because I couldn't serve, I try to serve those who did serve. You know, I'm deeply entrenched in the veteran community anyways, and I understand them. So I try to serve them to the best of my ability, because it takes a lot to not only know the ins and outs of a VA loan and have a patience with the process, but to be able to communicate with a veteran, because they are programmed completely different.

So, you had written something when we talked about this first, about a youth rodeo, and I read it and I stopped, because I wanted to ask you: explain the youth rodeo to me. What it is, what you do with it.

Youth rodeo is just like the youth version of baseball. The rules are slightly changed, somewhat based on body size. You know, the events are a little bit different here and there, because as far as steer wrestling goes, you're not going to have an 8-year-old, 60-pound kid trying to throw, you know, a 1,000-pound steer. But we have been involved in youth rodeos since the kids were really young. And so we haul bucking bulls to youth rodeos now.

I've still got my oldest daughter's two barrel horses here. My son has two rope horses he's training. I've got my rope horse. I think we got another horse out there somewhere, something. So yeah, we've got 21 head of bucking bulls, and because we haul those bucking bulls, we actually put kids on bulls. Yes. And one of our contracts for that, sorry, I can see the bulls. They're in the pasture right beyond my window here.

Very cool.

But one of our contracts requires that we also bring sheep for mutton busting. So the really little kids that, you know, want that thrill, that adrenaline junkie seeking. And we've got kids two years and up, you know, we've had them younger than that even, that ride the bulls and the sheep. And so we have sheep out here too, that we use for mutton busting. They literally just grab a hold of the wool. They lay right on top of the sheep, grab a hold of the wool, and hold on as long as they can. We open the chute gate, and they go. It's fun.

So you co-founded something out of, you know, a passion that you really love, and, like, after years of raising rodeo-driven kids, or living that rodeo lifestyle, like, why formalize it now?

So, my husband rode bulls for years before I even met him. So when he got out of the service, he got into riding bulls. And part of that was because he developed a drug habit in high school, and it was made worse in the military, and he was trying to kick that drug habit. And in his words, the high that he gets from riding bulls, and from being around them in a rodeo setting now, is better than any high he's ever gotten off of any drugs. And so that really fueled him. He rode bulls for, I don't know, he was riding for five to seven years before I met him. He rode bulls for right around 15 years before he retired.

And when our son got into it is when he decided we needed to buy some... well, I can back up. When our kids were little and he was riding, we bought bigger bulls, and we had them housed with other stock contractors. So we had deals with them where they kept them with their bulls, and they hauled them, and we would get a small percentage of the check from hauling them. And we sold out of those when we moved in 2010. We didn't have any fencing, and the contractors were cycling through their stock, and ours were getting a little older. So we just sold them and decided we'd start over again later.

And when later came, our son was riding. So we saw the hole in youth rodeo at that point, because they were putting a lot of kids on young bulls instead of smaller bulls. And young bulls don't know the ropes, you know. And there's a saying in the horse community, that green plus green equals black and blue. So you don't put a young kid on a young horse.

You don't put a green kid on a green horse. Yep.

Want to go someplace a little bit different, or a little different route. So you built your real estate business. What was the cost? People are saying there's always a cost to building what you build. Was there anything that was unexpected? Unexpected cost, unexpected relationship, effectively, because, like, what's behind it? I think building a business, especially a real estate business, there's that monetary cost to do it, and then there's also that, you know, backend cost, I'll call it that way, behind-the-scenes cost.

I don't know if there was too much that was unexpected. In the beginning, there was, because there always is. When you're first in your career, you have all these fees that you don't know are going to exist, and then you agree to something and realize you're not getting paid as much as you thought you would, and all of that. And then, you know, back before we had the contracts that buyers had to sign before we even stepped foot in a house, then you had the buyers that would run you around to 10 houses and then call the name on the sign for one, and that one would be the one they bought.

So those are all unexpected. But as I learned real estate, and learned that they were things that happened, I built my business with that percentage, knowing that I would have a percentage of business that would not bring me any money. So, I don't know. It's hard for me to say there was something unexpected in there too much, as far as costs go.

I just always like to ask that, because a lot of times you run through, like, you never realize it. Relationship, family, whatever it happens to be. But I'm actually going to dig a little deeper here, because this is something you wrote on your intake. We always send everybody that intake, and you answer these questions. And you sent your intake, and I hope it's okay that I go here, because it's something I think a lot of people feel, but no one ever says out loud, and no one ever shares it. And you said you struggle with impostor syndrome.

Yes. I'm trying to be better about voicing that, because I know a lot of people do.

Yeah. And first of all, I think voicing and saying it, you get a lot of the power from it by saying that. So to your point, you said it was almost crippling. Tell me about this. Why do you think it is? What does it feel like? Because I think we all share that to a certain extent.

I mean, I still battle with it right now. Just two days ago, I helped a buyer get an accepted offer on a property, and the impostor syndrome started in. It's a $435,000 price point. Megan, you don't work at that price point. You can't help them through something with that much money involved. But I've helped multi-million dollar corporations make more money, you know. So I have to basically reason with myself that the impostor syndrome is not correct, and that I can do this.

So the almost crippling was to the point where, back when I started back into real estate after leaving corporate the second time, the impostor syndrome really piped up, because COVID hit, and I really had to ask myself if I could pivot, because everything was tough. Everything was shutting down, and it just was getting really tough. So it was one of those where I looked at my kids and I went, "Nope, I don't have a choice. I can't give up."

Thank you for sharing that, because I know a lot of people go through that. It doesn't matter if it's a $400,000 price point, or a million dollar price point, or a multi-million dollar price point. It's that thought of, am I good enough? And a lot of times with impostor syndrome, it's "I'm not good enough." And I think a lot of times we need to change that inner dialogue from "I'm not good enough" to what makes me good. Like, I am good enough.

Why not me?

Yeah. Why not me? It's tough to go through. I think we all go through that. And what I've noticed, in doing this a long time, what I've noticed is a lot of very successful people have that. And it almost is like that drive to prove to yourself that I am good enough to do that. Do you think that might be part of it also?

And I think that what you just said is exactly it. The successful people use it as a drive. The folks who are less successful, who listen to it too much, are the ones that get held in the same place their entire lives. They're content with less, because they listen to that impostor syndrome that says they can't do anymore, when their potential says they could. But the ones that are successful, and drive further, and are entrepreneurs, and build successful businesses, are the ones that fight that impostor syndrome and say, "No, you're not right. I can do this."

It almost proves, like, you're proving that it's not right, that you can do this. I like that. A lot of people can carry that with them as you listen to this. So, you know, from the outside, it's like, hey, you're successful as a broker, you're successful as an instructor, it's like you hit your goals. But is there a goal you haven't met that you want to meet, that maybe you still carry, either from the beginning, or... you chuckle there.

So, I guess there is one. So when I started my brokerage, I very much was scared of the liability of taking on agents. So I thought, well, I'm just going to kind of go with... I had my daughter, my oldest daughter. She got licensed when she was 19, and she was with eXp for a year before I started my brokerage. She came with me. And then I had a really good friend of mine growing up that decided to get her license, and she started talking to me about it just at the point where I was thinking about actually getting my broker's license and opening my brokerage. So she really encouraged me and helped me with it.

And so I just had those two, and I was like, that's good. We can do that. I don't need any more liability than that when I'm just opening a brokerage. I'll re-examine that goal in another year and see if I want to bring on more agents. And this October will be year five. I have one agent. It is not either my daughter or my friend. It's another gal that randomly called me because somebody spoke highly of me, and she was looking for a broker. And her and I aligned very well in our integrity and our goals.

And yeah, it's a pain point right now, because I'm at the point where I do need to grow my brokerage. Because, as you said, we're instructors, and I'm facing that reality of, I can't be everywhere at once. I cannot be here, opening doors for inspections and showing houses to my clients, and in Denver, or New Orleans, or wherever it takes me in the speaking world and the instructing world to be. I can't be both places at once. So I need to grow my brokerage, to have a base to leave and come back to.

Do you think maybe that impostor syndrome might be stopping you a little bit from doing that?

That's exactly what it is, because I doubt whether I can lead a whole team of agents to their own success. Which is absolutely ridiculous of me, because when I was with eXp, I was a mentor, and I mentored multiple agents within the first year of their career to over six-figure GCIs in their first year, and within five years, one of them was making seven-figure GCI. So if I can mentor him to that, why can't I bring on agents that can be successful?

It's sometimes that realization. I just saw it on your face when I said that. You're like, "Yeah, that could be a..." Jam on your mic is bouncing.

It could be something like that. I know I'm the one standing in my own way. And it's something that I'm aware of, and I'm cognizant of, but at the same time, it's also something that I haven't figured out how to get past.

So, I mean, this is a good thing, because I think in business, and most entrepreneurs, we always run into those self-imposed ceilings. You know, in corporate, we get that corporate or boss-imposed ceiling, like, this is all you can do. And I think a lot of times, individually, entrepreneurs, we impose ceilings upon ourselves, of, like, yeah, I should do that, but I don't know. And I think just realizing that is a step. So now Coach Jeff is going to come out of me and say this: what's the first step you need to do in order to do that?

The analytical side of my brain says I need to finish getting all of my ducks in a row, as far as making sure all of my intake, training, SOPs, everything's all in place. But realistically, I've coached with less. I've mentored with less. I've taught people with less. I don't need to have all that. It will come as I need it, you know. So I just need to get out there and do it. I need to start talking to people about it.

And I think that's a great line that we come to the ending of this with, is that sometimes you don't have everything in place. And I think that's a lot of times when it comes to leaving that corporate job and starting something new, or being a brokerage, or, you know, hiring agents, you're not a single agent, or starting a team. I think a lot of it is just realizing that, you know, there's this thing that it's never going to be 100% the right time to do anything. So you just have to say, it's the right time now, and go and do it. And I think that happens if you're looking to leave a job and go into real estate, or become an entrepreneur, or, for you, going, hiring your first agent, saying, "Hey," or your second agent, you know, it's a good time to do it now.

Yep. I have a little bit of an extra bump in the road with that, in that I've been so entrenched in this area for so long, I know way too many of the bad habits of the other agents around here, and I don't want to approach any of them.

So that does make it a little harder.

I know. So I don't know. It's one of those things where, do I approach them and see if they're open to learning how to do things the correct way, which, not operating unethically, which is the problem some of them have. So then that's something I have to ask myself and figure out, is if I want to try that, or if I want to just go after new agents.

You know, it's easier to teach good habits than it is to break bad habits.

Well, that brings us to our last question. We call it "the last question," actually. What would you go back and tell yourself on day one?

I think the biggest thing that I would need to tell myself from day one is to have that belief in myself, because that's a big part of where the impostor syndrome comes in, is not believing in myself enough. And one of the reasons I've gotten as far as I have is because my husband believes in me more than I do. So that would be the biggest thing to tell the younger version of myself, is to believe in yourself more than you think you should.

Thank you. Thank you for that. And Megan, before we let you go, where can people find you, follow your work, or reach out if they want to work with you?

Well, I do have a website with my name on it, which is meganvondeylen.com.

Do you want to spell?

M-E-G-A-N-V-O-N-D-E-Y-L-E-N dot com. If they Google me, they should be able to find me, though, because I've spent 18 years developing an online presence, that they can find me. So I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram, I'm on TikTok, I'm on X, but I don't use it. So, but yeah, Facebook is where I'm at the most, because that's where my clients seem to come from the most.

Megan, thank you. I truly appreciate you sharing with us, and going deep with us, too.

Yeah. Thank you, Megan. And if that conversation hit you the way it hit us, if you're watching, if you're listening, please share it. Send it to somebody who's in the middle of their own moment right now. Maybe they're stifled by a ceiling, or they're in that corporate box and it's not allowing them to shine bright. Right.

Next Monday, we're sitting down with another great guest, talking about being outside the corporate box. You don't want to miss that one. But before we let you go, we want to say thank you to our founding partners, Wise Agent, Subi, and the CE Shop. They make this show possible, and they are building tools that actually help people in this industry. Check them out. All the links are in the show notes. And thank you, Megan, for spending your time with us. And thank you to everyone for listening and watching. That is not something we take lightly. Now go make it happen.