The Waitress Who Won Real Estate

Let's talk a little bit about bad reviews from a client who wanted a discount you wouldn't give. Well, it was kind of extortion, right? If you do this, then hey, we won't put up that review. Literally, if you do this for free, if you don't charge a commission, they'll forget about it. Did you address the bad review? No. Just totally left it there, ignored it. Not everything needs to be addressed.

What centers you? Cuz as a broker, you know things can blow up all the time. I have to trust in my faith, and I trust in God that the business is going to be there, and I don't need to worry about where the money is going to come from. A lot of people wouldn't say that's what they do. Yeah, I think for fear of, right, being canceled. And obviously, in this business, you have to be careful about what you say.

What kind of advice would you give? If you have 6 months to a year of savings, walk away now. What are you waiting for? Just do it. Like literally, what are you waiting for?

Before we get into today's show, a quick thank you to the partners who make this possible: Wise Agent, Subi, and The CE Shop. Three brands that we trust, three tools that actually move the needle. The playbook is changing. The question is, are you changing with it? This is Outside the Corporate Box, real conversations with real leaders who broke the mold and built something better, with your hosts, JMan and Jeffrey Scott Stanton.

Our guest today got a real estate license in 2007 and went full-time selling in 2008, the worst year in real estate history. And somehow, that was the right call. This is Outside the Box. So today we're sitting down with Lindsay Hart. She's been the most recognizable name in Finger Lakes real estate for almost two decades. What we really want to talk about is the day she walked into a real estate office to answer phones, looked around, and decided this was actually hers to take. Lindsay, welcome to the show. Welcome. Thanks for having me.

So, paint the picture for us. Before real estate, before you started in real estate, what were you doing? What were you up to? What was I doing? Yeah. I was floating. I was just floating along. Floating along in Ithaca. You graduated from IC, right? Yep, graduated from IC in May of 2002.

And decided to stay? I did. I didn't mean to. I didn't mean to stay. There was something about this place that just brings you back. I actually was interviewing in other places, in other states. I think I'd gone to Jersey, yes, and then Maryland. That's what everybody says.

Can you back up and say, what did you go to school for? I actually went to the Park School of Communications for marketing, advertising, and public relations. Very cool. Who knew I'd actually use it for myself? So, at that time, you know, the way companies would advertise for jobs, they made it sound very glamorous. And then I would go to these places and really it was just sales. It was just like, you're going to hit the pavement and you're going to do sales. People needed to move inventory or something like that. Yeah.

You know, that's when storefronts and people had retail buildings still. 2002. So Jersey was like a furniture store. And then I went to Maryland for one of them, and then Pennsylvania, I think. And then those just didn't work out, and I ended up staying in Ithaca, and I was working as a waitress at a local restaurant.

And I happened to wait on a table where the gentleman had just bought out a publication, a local small desktop publication. And I jokingly said, "Oh, so I should talk to you about a job." Cuz I said, when you're a waitress, you talk to your tables. You interact with the customer. Right. Customer service, right? And I thought, hey, I should talk to you about a job. And then he said, "Oh, okay." And literally, like the next week, I had a job. He hired me. It's this small desktop publishing company in Ithaca.

Go back to actually that. Do you remember that conversation? I don't. God. Like, as salespeople, it's always... and again, if you're in marketing, you're in PR, it's all sales to me. It's about having conversations with people. That's why I asked, like, do you remember how that conversation went? You know, how did you approach it, or anything like that?

All I remember, and it's so funny, because I literally remember what table they were sitting at at this restaurant. And I remember literally where he was sitting, and he was with his wife, and where she was sitting, and where in the restaurant they were sitting, and what table they were sitting at. And how long ago was this? I was 22 years old. And I remember saying to them, Joe Heaney... So, like 5 years ago? Yeah. Yeah.

I remember saying to him the words, literally, "Oh, so I should be talking to you about a job." But after that, I don't remember. I don't remember, you know, what he said, or how he asked me to interview for the job, or anything like that. Maybe because I was just so excited I got a job. Yes. Yeah, I got a job in sales.

Right out of... think about it, right out of college, doing what you went to school for, because what it was was making ads, and a little more than that. I literally did a little bit of everything for this newspaper. And so, you were selling the ads? Who was your target audience? Like car dealers, real estate people, local business owners?

Nope, this one was called the Ithaca Child newspaper. So this was before I went to the Ithaca Journal. So, you got head-hunted. Mhm. Yeah, I did. Surprisingly. This was a really good introduction for me to the area, and I think this really helped me learn the area, because I would drive around, and not only would I deliver the newspaper to all of these places, I went and tried to sell ads. I also learned how to make the ads on Quark. Who remembers Quark on Mac? I learned how on a Mac. This is where I learned Mac.

Yeah. And so I learned that, and then I learned all these other places, and I was allowed to go interview some people and do editorial. I did some editorial work. So I did it all, and I drove down to Watkins Glen. So I learned the whole Finger Lakes area this way. I met people talking to them, not only with ads, but hearing their stories too, writing about them, delivering newspapers all around. And for me, getting right out of college, not having been from the area, cuz I'm from Pennsylvania, this was a great way to learn about the area.

And then I did get head-hunted, surprisingly, because we printed that small newspaper from the Ithaca Journal, when the Ithaca Journal still had a printing press in its building. And I met people there, and somebody said to me, "Hey, you know, you would make a really great outside salesperson." And I was like... Famous last words of how people's careers start or end. It's one or the other. It's always the beginning or the end of a career. You'd make a great outside salesperson, commission only. And you're like, "Yeah."

Well, what I wanted to do... well, so this is where I learned that my first employer with this small newspaper thing, I was a subcontractor for him. I didn't realize it, cuz I'm 22, right? And I just told this story on my podcast. If you go, it's about taxes. We just posted this. And I had a friend who was a CPA. We just interviewed him on the podcast. And tax time, he was kind enough to do my taxes pro bono, cuz, you know, 22 years old, I look like I'm 12. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing, here's this. I didn't realize that this person had hired me as a subcontractor, not an employee.

I knew nothing. Like, I didn't even know. Taxes? Yeah. What are those? What do you mean? Like, I'm getting this money. I had no idea that, you know, taxes weren't being taken out. I didn't know anything about 1099s. So I go to this guy, and I was like, "Yeah, you do my taxes." I sit down in front of him and he looks at me. He's like, "Okay."

I'm thinking I'm getting a check back. I'm like, this is great. Okay, I need to pay for rent, cuz I'm living alone. He sits down. He's like, "Okay. So, I did everything that I could. I found all this stuff." He's like, "You owe $500." And it was like somebody punched me in the stomach. I looked at him and I just started crying. I couldn't help it. I was like, where am I going to come up with $500? At that time, my rent was $450 a month. Everybody's probably going to curse you right now. $450 a month? What?

So, you know, that was my introduction to being a subcontractor. And so when the Ithaca Journal said, hey, you can be an employee and you have benefits, I was like, okay, sign me up. And so that's when I jumped ship to the Ithaca Journal, and I did outside sales. And I did that for like a year, and I was like, this is comfortable. I get a steady paycheck. I got benefits. They're taking taxes out. I don't have to worry about this. When tax time rolled around, I got a check back. I didn't have to pay taxes in. So I was comfortable.

And the people that I called on were the used car sales, the used car lots, the resale cars, and real estate agents, real estate brokerages. Why those two? Why did you decide to call... like, what? That's what they gave me. That's what they gave you, okay. So they're like, here are your clients. Probably easy to sell to, that's why. Easy to sell to, yeah. And in your face. I'll be in it. What? How much do I pay? Do you got a park bench I can do with that, please?

I don't know why, but they're like, this is your territory, and here's, you know, who you're going to be selling to. And they split it up, because there were a couple other people that sold to realtors and car dealerships. But my territory was like the Southern Tier. So, you know, I got a few Ithaca realtors, and then I went down to like Johnson City and Elmira and Corning. So I got to learn that area. Talk about learning more of the area. And so I learned a lot of the car dealership folks, which is really interesting, because I had trouble getting out of there sometimes. When I would go in and try to sell them stuff, they'd just talk, talk, talk.

You're not the first person to get stuck in a car dealership, trust me. No, you just can't leave. They lock the door. I'm just going to run in for a couple minutes and talk to them. Now, 3 and a half days later, there you go. And a new car. They talk. It's not even the one you wanted. They always try to sell me a car, too. Yep. One of them I specifically remember, I think it was Kent Brown Toyota in Big Flats. Every time I went in there, he's like, "You would look great in a Toyota." Every single time, tried to sell me a car.

And so I would call and then go to the realtors, which at the time, you know, publications and print advertising were huge. Now, not so much. But there was a new brokerage in town. And my supervisor at the Journal says, "Hey, you need to go call on this person, and here's a new product, and go try to sell it to them. Tell them about it."

Tell us about that day, then. So, you walked in... I walked into this beautiful office at 531 State Street in Ithaca. Went up to the third floor. It's a beautiful brick building. Went up to the third floor, and I said, "Is Melissa Miller here?" And I went and talked to Melissa Miller, and she was kind enough to actually sit there and listen to me go on and on about this product, and I said, "You would be great, and here's why, and XYZ, and 123, and ABC." And she looked at me and goes, "Do you want a job?" And I go, "I have a job." It's what I'm doing right now.

And she proceeded to explain to me, and I don't even remember what she said, but, you know, she said that she's a newer brokerage. I knew she was a newer brokerage. She just opened. And she's like, "You know, you would be helping me. You would start out front. I need an admin to do all of this stuff. We've got these agents." And so I thought about it, because I was kind of tired of driving all over for the Journal. Like, I had a little car, and man, I was putting miles on it. And I was just kind of sick and tired of driving and trying to sell, because there was burnout.

And so I talked to my then fiance, was fiance at the time. And I said, "Hey, there's this opportunity." But I talked to her, and she said, "You know, there wouldn't be any benefits, and here's the pay." And so it would have been a pay cut. Yeah. I'll never forget this date, which is funny, cuz I forget every other date. But I had gone home to visit my dad in the summer, and talked about it on the drive back home to New York, and I said, "You know what? I think I'm going to do it. I'm going to take the job."

And so even though it's a pay cut and there were no benefits, I think I saw the writing on the wall with the Journal. Things were starting to fall apart there. They were letting people go. Things were changing there. And so I called Melissa up and I said, "Yes, I will come work for you, even though it's, you know, XYZ." And August 22nd, 2005, I walked into that building and I started as admin. And 20 years later, I am now co-broker owner.

That's very cool. So, starting as an admin, tell me what it was like, cuz I truly believe like the admins, the receptionists, the front desk people, they see everything that's going on. And, you know, to me, I started out in this industry in the mortgage industry, and I was an assistant, and I filled out applications that the other loan officers were missing stuff from the applications. So I almost learned it from like the very, very bottom going up. And I think that gives people a better way of succeeding, knowing that. So tell me what that was like, actually being an admin and seeing, you know, these quote-unquote realtors and agents around you doing business.

Yes, exactly. You learn from the bottom up. I remember sitting at the front desk, and that year that I started was the very first year that they implemented an online MLS. Before that, they were still using books. I don't know if you remember that. They were using the for sale and sold... the old telephone book scene. Mhm. Because Melissa that day went up to get the last sold book, the last booklet printed of all the sold properties. Because she tasked me, she's like, "Okay, one of the things that you need to do is learn this online MLS system called Paragon." And I was like, "Oh boy."

And one of the things I specifically remember is the terminology. I didn't know the difference between a selling agent and a listing agent and a buyer's agent. I thought they were all different. But a selling agent and a listing agent were the same thing. So I had to quickly catch on to the terminology.

And so, working at the front desk from the ground up, I think I had a slight advantage, because I knew a lot of the realtors already, because I was ad space to them. So when they would call, I knew, you know, the Steve Seguis, the Amy Wood Gonzalez, the C.J., you know, these people that would call and want to talk to, you know, the Mary Decker, the Marge Hovanic, those agents that we had in our office. This is when we still used landlines and had a fax. You know, not everybody had a cell phone back then. And so I recognized them, and they were like, "Oh, hey, Lindsay." They recognized me. So that made it a lot easier.

It was really serendipitous that these two careers, or these two jobs... Right. It was almost like the path was set for me to be in this career, because I had known these agents. And so it made the transition into admin of real estate a lot kinder. And so, you know, I knew what an MLS number was, because we had to put them in the ads. You know, I knew what was required in an ad, because I was doing them for the agents. So I did know that part. So it was a little easier to transition that way.

But then, all of the paperwork and agents coming at you and saying, here's this, here's that... I don't remember much from the very early days, but I do remember Melissa giving me a lot of leeway, and saying, you know, "Help me here. Kind of make it your own, and organize it, and just, you know, help me get it organized."

So, to me, that's like you're a broker or a manager in training at that point. You know, cuz I think that's probably what makes you as successful as you are now, is that again, when you're sitting there and used to doing and dealing with all those little minute details that you have to as part of your job, I think it makes it easier later on when you have to do it as part of, hey, this is my responsibility, because, you know, I run the brokerage. I think my stubbornness to not ask for help and learn things on my own... I don't know if that's a good quality or not, but I'm very stubborn, and I refuse to ask for help until I've exhausted all options to figure it out myself.

Well, so you started 2005 there. You got licensed in 2007, but waited until 2008-9 to go full-time. Like, why then? Like, oh, the market's collapsing, let's go full-time. I was still helping Melissa with the administrative stuff. I was still helping her behind the scenes. She still needed a person at the front desk until she could replace somebody. So I was still doing some of that, and then she brought me on to her team, so I was still doing some administrative stuff and helping her on her team in 2007 and 2008. So I was on the Melissa Miller team. And then in 2009, I was like, all right, I'm completely doing this on my own.

And I specifically remember making the announcement, because we had moved offices. We'd moved offices from State Street to Meadow Street. And that's when I said, you know, I told the agents, I'm like, yep, I'm no longer on the Melissa Miller team. She taught me everything. I'm going to just go out completely on my own and do my own thing. And it's funny, cuz I literally just today looked back and said, 17 years ago I was making blog posts, and I made a blog post specifically that said May 6th, 2009, I'm doing this. Or, yeah, it said 2008 or 7 or something. I'm doing this. I got my license. It's funny.

One of the things is, this podcast is called Outside the Corporate Box, and I have to ask this question. Why did you wait that long to actually do it yourself? Was it because it was more comfortable doing it for someone else, or was there another reason? Cuz most agents, they get their license and, hey, I'm going to go do this by myself. But you went from office admin to I'm working on a team for the broker, doing admin stuff and doing some real estate, and then like slowly... And it's fine. Some people feel more safe inside that box.

At one point when I was doing admin, I was like, hey, I'm pretty much doing real estate now, because I was doing a lot for the agents, with, you know, back then, faxing contracts. I pretty much picked up on everything. Faxing contracts, handling phone calls. I was just picking up on stuff simply from observing. And at one point I said to myself, I was like, you know, I could do this. I'm seeing everybody else doing it. I was like, I could do this. The checks were coming in, so I was processing checks too.

You're saying, I'm making X amount per hour, but they're making this for doing one deal. No, but I knew that's commission only. You don't sell, you don't make money. And I saw deals fall apart too. Trust me. I heard agents' phone conversations. I saw the back end of it, the nitty-gritty, the side that's not the rainbows and unicorns. I saw the other side of it.

The side that most people don't see. It's the side that even a lot of brokers don't see, cuz they're not handling it day-to-day. They're not handling the minutia of those little details. Sitting at the front desk, you get complained to, complained at. So you hear all the little what's-going-on. Everything. Yeah.

So, yeah, I knew it wasn't pretty. But I was like, I'm doing this already. Like, why not just get my license? Just at least get my license. So, I didn't actually think about selling. And when I took the class, I kind of had an advantage, cuz I was doing all of this stuff anyway and learning as I go. So, that's, you know, just like you. You start at the bottom. I learned all this stuff just by doing, and then I took the class, and I was like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, some of the stuff I didn't know, the legal stuff.

So, was it more comfort level? Was it more comfortable being that admin than going out on your own and doing it yourself? Well, absolutely. Absolutely, because that was a steady paycheck. So, what made you make that jump? Cuz it's hard to go from that steady pay, I got income coming in, you know, I got a paycheck coming in every week, every month, I know how much I make, to maybe I'm not going to make anything this month.

I don't remember exactly what made me make that jump. I think my husband encouraged me. And he had the steady job, and I think he said, yep, you can do it. And we talked about it. And we said, you know, we have this much, so if you don't make anything for 6 to 8 months, we're still good. So I was like, yeah, I'm going to do this. I don't even know why. Maybe because I was tired of working a 9 to 5. I don't like to be told what to do.

I think that has a lot to do with people who go outside the corporate box. You know, the corporate box, we're being told what to do constantly. You have to do this, you have to be there at this time, you have to wear this suit or these colors or whatever. And if you don't like being told what to do, that is a really good reason not to be inside that corporate box and inside the corporate job anymore. I'm an entrepreneur because nobody else will hire me.

Well, and then, you know, the whole asking for time off. Like, obviously I've been doing this for so long now, the thought of being like, "Oh, hey, can I have 2 weeks off to go on vacation?" That just is absurd to me. Like, having to ask somebody else to do something, when I'm like, nope, I'm just going to go here and do this and do that. Now, I will also be the one that sits and works until 8:30 at night. I will be 6:30 in the morning till 8:30 at night. But I like what I do. I love what I do.

And I constantly have ideas. And so I'm like, well, let's try this. Let's do this. Let's do that. So again, it's not somebody stifling my ideas. It's not somebody telling me no. It's not someone telling you what to do at all. Yeah. Which I think is a lot of reasons why people, you know, become entrepreneurs, become self-employed, become salespeople, because we get to make our own way. I think it's probably the best way. And time. I get to control my time.

Let's talk a little bit about bad reviews from a client who wanted a discount you wouldn't give. What's that like? A special kind of loyalty test. It was kind of extortion, right? Let it go. Let it go, girl. Tell us how you really feel.

I mean, I'm just stating a fact. Because you'll have this. You can't make everybody happy all the time. And when you're an entrepreneur, when you are a boss, when you're in business for yourself, you're not going to make everybody happy all the time. And you have to come to terms with that. And you have to be okay with disappointing people. You have to be okay with people not liking you, in real estate and other things. And that's sometimes hard to do if you're a people pleaser, too. So there's a lot of internal conflict when you're like, "No, it has to be this way," but, like, oh my gosh, are you mad at me?

Right. So, the client gave you a bad review because you wouldn't give them, quote-unquote, a discount, whatever that was, whatever that is. Pretty much. There's a standard in real estate. That's what I've come to the conclusion, because this person had the attorney call me up and say, you know, XYZ, but if you do this for free... If you do this, then hey, we won't put up that review. Literally, if you do this for free, if you don't charge a commission, they'll forget about it.

And look, I'm not accusing anybody of anything. We don't know who any of these people are, but it's almost like extortion. So then half of a year later, or a year later, a bad review pops up. And I'm like, whatever. So it's like I put two and two together. You didn't do something, and so this comes out. So that's got to be what it is.

Did you address the bad review? No. You just totally left it there, ignored it. It doesn't need to be addressed. Not everything needs to be addressed. Why do you think that is? Because knowing the situation, it would have just put fuel on the fire. Not everything needs to be addressed. Don't feed the trolls.

And then there was another review, which I actually laughed at, because this client, towards the end, it broke down. Everything kind of broke down, and I was only communicated with through the attorney. My client wouldn't communicate with me. It was aggressive. The situation got aggressive. So when it closed finally, I was like, well, thank goodness. Everything closed. Now this is over.

And then I see it, you know... you've had these situations where you see these memes, and you're like, oh, whew, it closed. Thank goodness. I don't have to, you know, deal with this again. And then I see a bad review pop up because I didn't reach out and thank the person for their business. Well, because we weren't on speaking terms, cuz somebody was only speaking to me through their attorney. So then there's reviews like that. You know, again, you're not going to make everybody happy, and that's okay, because if you are making everybody happy, then you're doing something wrong. Good point. Good point. When you deal with people, when you're in a business with people, people facing, you're never going to make everybody happy.

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Do you think doing that sales and doing that editorial stuff and doing the sales outside, do you think that makes you better at what you do now because of that? Like, because you had that more of a corporate structure type of job? I don't know if it's the corporate structure that makes you better, but it's definitely sales, and waitressing definitely... Navigating different personalities. Me being better at this. Interpersonal communication, absolutely. There we go. Yeah, that's exactly right.

I actually think waitressing and waiters is sales. Because that's how you're getting your tip. You're going to get a tip based upon selling them on yourself, selling them on your hospitality, selling them on you should order this and not this. It truly is sales. There's a lot of psychology behind getting tips.

It's service. Real estate is service. That's service. You're at that table for a very brief amount of time. You have seconds to read those people. And if they need more service or they don't want to be bothered, you have seconds to read the situation. Just like when you're helping a client, you have to read the situation. Like, is somebody not happy that they're moving? Is somebody not happy that they have to sell? Are they really emotionally attached to this house? Does one person really want to sell and one doesn't?

You have to read the situation and figure out then how to communicate with them, or, you know, what's going on, because people don't come out and tell you what's going on. You have to kind of read between the lines. And that's really what you're doing. You're assessing the situation and assessing people and saying, okay, what's really going on here, and how can I help? That's service.

Tell us about the decision to build Hart & Homes. You started to build your team in 2017, I think it was. Yeah, so Hart & Homes was always solo, right? I mean, I married into this great name for real estate, right? Like, honey, I love you, but I love your name even more. I can't take credit. I got the name before I was in real estate. So it worked out perfectly.

Hart & Homes was born out of necessity. I did not go into real estate thinking that I was going to do this, build a team. No, I did not. I ended up, you know, having kids, and I guess I was doing something right, and I got really busy. I just got really busy. I think you know a little bit of this. I was homeschooling the kids, and I was involved in the association, so I was vice president, president, while I was homeschooling and doing business. I was having to turn away some business. And that pained me. Cuz we know our limitations. It's good to know your limitations. Some business I just couldn't take.

And so I had tried at one point to start the team, but you got to have the right people, and it didn't work. So I think it was in 2013 that I was like, okay, there's a woman that I could bring on board. She showed interest in being in real estate, and I tried to make it work, and it didn't work. And so that just kind of fizzled. And I was like, all right, I'm just going to have to do what I can do, and just chug along and do work and juggle everything.

And then in 2016, the very end of 2016, I was approached. So I wasn't going out and looking. I was just chugging along. And I was approached by a young woman, and she goes, "You look like you got it together. You're doing this and this." And I'm like, "Wow, okay. That's great. I look like I got it together, cuz inside is like a squirrel in traffic." Great line. And so she goes, "I want to do that." I was like, "Okay."

And the format, because you know how REMAX works, sometimes it's difficult on the back end to say, how is a team going to work? How is the back end going to work with splits? And how are we going to make all that work? And with the help of my husband, we were able to form a structure on the back end that says, okay, here's the split, and here's how the back end is going to work, and here's how bringing this woman on is going to look. And we're like, okay, this actually looks like it's going to work.

And I approached Melissa, who was my broker at the time. Remember, this is 2017. It was, well, December of 2016. And I approached her and I said, hey, if I'm going to do this, I need your help, because I'm going to need your help on the back end with this structure and commissions and how this is all going to work. And she was on board. You know, she is the greatest broker. There's a reason I've been with her forever.

And so, January of 2017, we were like, okay, here we go. Let's try this. She came on as an admin, just like I did with real estate. Yeah. I was like, you're starting as an admin, because this is what I need help doing. Boom, boom, boom. And so, January 2017, Hart & Homes was no longer a solo act. Two females. And then from there, Erin was her name, she's like, "I want to get my license." I was like, of course you do. So 3 months later, she gets her license.

She starts working, and I was like, well, I need an admin. So I get approached by another person, and we bring her on, cuz the structure's working. We bring her on. I get approached again. We bring another person on. By the end of 2017, I got four people on my team, and I'm like, how did this happen? And it just kind of all fell into place.

And each of the people, except for two of them, all started as admin on my team. I was like, if you're going to start, you got to start as admin. Here's what you're going to do. Here's what I'm going to teach you. And then they all want to get their license. And so then I make them mentor with me. I was like, you have to shadow me. This is how you have to do it. And now, here we are. At one point, we were seven members, and now we're six. Six members. And we're coming up on 10 years.

Nice. Congratulations. So, you kept saying, well, they approached me, they approached me, and I think it's recognizing leadership, right? Usually people want to work for somebody that they admire. And so you're trying to grow this business, which then grows into being a broker owner. Wait, but before that, talk a little bit about your philosophy.

Okay, I have one philosophy. Relationships before business. So that's really it. If something is going wrong, it's relationships first. And most of the agents on my team have families, and I was like, family first. So if you need to do something, if you need to go away, if there's something going on, it's always family first. Business will always be there. Look, real estate was here before us. You know, before we were agents, real estate was there. After we're agents, real estate will be there. Some people may not think so. Some people may think AI and other things are going to take over. Well, we'll see. But listen, I know, right? We might have robots. I mean, I have a theory. But we can get into that.

So, you said relationships first. But those bad reviews... I only have two. I know, I'm just asking. And when you say relationships first, is it meaning your agents' relationship with their family, that their family comes first, or in business, the relationship between you and a client is more important?

Yeah, so it has a couple different meanings. So, relationship between me and my agents, that comes first. I'm not a taskmaster, right? Relationship between us first, relationship between their family first, and business is relationships. It's not transactional. Our relationship between me and my agents is not transactional. And we try not to make business with clients just only transactional. People want to trust who they're working with. And again, you have to read the person.

Those two reviews, things went south after the fact, right? Everything was chugging along great. And I should have seen the red flag in the one immediately, but I didn't. It's always after the fact. So, you know, they always pop up out of nowhere, but yes, it's usually the relationship first. Like, hey, wait a minute, what went wrong? But if somebody doesn't want to talk to you and they're only communicating with you through their attorney, I'm not sure how to fix that.

That relationship has already been... is once removed at that point. It's very hard to say, hey, let me go back into this relationship. But that's what I tell my agents. I'm like, you have to remember they're human beings that need help, and that's where it starts. You help the person. You're not in it for the money. If you go after it just for the money, it's going to show. Yeah, when you have commission breath, it always shows.

So, you went from running that team to now going to a partner and being a co-broker slash co-owner, correct? Yeah, because I had an idea. What was the idea? I didn't like how something was going. So I said, "Melissa, hey, can we..." Can you share what you didn't like with us, JMan? "I had an idea." Well, I was being approached by some agents about how some things were going, and I was like, okay, I think there's a better way to do something. So I had an idea. I was like, I think there's a better way to do this. Let's talk.

And I've been with Melissa since the beginning, and, you know, I credit a lot of how far I've come and grown to her, cuz she's given me the space to grow, basically, and be comfortable expressing opinions without backlash, so to speak. So I was able to approach her and say, hey, what if we did something like this? And I think that she was just in a space and time ready for a change and ready to share, because being a broker can be very lonely. When you're a sole broker, people don't know what goes on behind the scenes. People don't know what you shoulder. And you don't tell them. You don't tell the agents.

So, I've got a question. Who do you think's more of an entrepreneur, you or Melissa? Define entrepreneur, because people... I'll ask you, so what do you define as an entrepreneur? Business minded, as opposed to just ideas. So, I think Melissa is a fantastic realtor and has great ideas. Business, analytical, all of that, I think I'm more that. So when I talked to her, I was like, I have a very linear brain. I'm very linear. She's a very big idea.

Would you say you're more of like the operator type? JMan over here. Let me think about that. Yep. Yeah, in the, you know, in the leadership, and at the NYSAR, even in the classes, he's like, "Yep." I'm the implementer, right? I'm a doer. I'm like, okay, you have an idea, but at some point you have to do. You can't just keep thinking about it. So I'm a quick doer. Like, I will do quickly. And I'm like, okay, it didn't work. Next. I'm a quick doer.

So, there was a movie about climbing, and I don't remember the name of the movie. I don't remember who it was. Well, they're having a conversation in this movie, and they asked, cuz there's one person that funded it and there's one person that's leading the Sherpas. So one of the guys says, well, when the decision comes of when we have to turn back from the mountain, you climb up Everest, when you have to turn back, who ultimately makes that decision? And that's always my question when you have two people who are partners, who are entrepreneurs together. Who's ultimately the final say? Cuz it has to be someone. In the movie it was, who's making the decision that affects people's lives, if they live or die. So I was asking, anytime there's a partnership in anything, who's the deciding voice?

That is a great question. Who is the deciding voice? I mean, we're not doing brain surgery here, but it really depends, right? Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm channeling Becky Jones here. It depends. In real estate, you know... I know Becky. I know Becky, too. Are we talking about the same Becky Jones? Right? Yeah.

It really does, because I think we balance each other out greatly, because we're very different. Quite opposite. So there are things where I'm like, you know what, you make that decision, because I don't care either way. It's not high on my priority list. Melissa, you make that decision. And then there's other things that I will...

Let me pause there for a second, cuz I'm big about language and linguistics. So if I go to JMan, "You make the decision," is JMan really making the decision, or did I just make the decision that JMan makes the decision? Oh, this is like some psychological... This is psychology. Cuz it's always the same thing. It's like the same about that corporate box. I think there's certain things that when people work for companies, they have a different type of mindset than someone who's only been an entrepreneur, only been a business owner. And that's the reason why I ask. Cuz in corporations, we usually have to defer to somebody else. Oh, you can make that choice. But ultimately, who's really making that choice?

We do speak on a lot. Like, just this morning we had to talk about something about a contract. But we were of the same opinion on it. We both did a little research, and we were of the same opinion on it. So if we're not of the same opinion, if we're not on the same page, we will hash it out. We will talk and be like, we'll present our sides. And usually, when it comes to business stuff, monetary, I'm making the decision. Yeah, thinking of it, I feel like there's not a lot of decisions that need to be... corporate stuff. It's not a lot of decisions that need to be made.

So in this whole transition, so now you're co-brokers, co-owners of the brokerage. Any big mess-ups? Like, what was something that was like a flub, either in the partnership or in just the business in general? You know, entrepreneur... Yeah, I mean, you start the partnership in 2020, where something significant happened, in which we were deemed non-essential in New York State.

Yes. Oh my gosh. So yeah, we announced the partnership. You know, she disintegrates her LLC, or her S corp, that was, you know, what she was doing, and we start the partnership, and then the DBA, right? And we come out in 2020, January of 2020. Hey, we are co-broker owners under... Let's go. We're excited. Yay! Oops.

And we can't even announce it, because, you know, it's 2020. We get the license, we can do everything. February rolls around, and we're like, okay, we're ready to announce it. And then March hits, and we're like, well, we just got buried under all this news. And we're like, okay. So people still don't even know that I'm co-broker owner of REMAX. They're like, "Oh, you're broker owner?" I was like, yeah, I still keep it just under wraps. I'm like, I don't really care if somebody knows it. The title doesn't matter to me. I'm doing what I need to do, the work that's getting done.

Like, I'm happy with the way things are running, like the work behind the scenes. My agents are happy. Like, we're profitable. So I'm happy about that. We are in a new space, you know, we got a new space in February of 2023. Yeah, but 2020 kind of screwed us up, but we recovered. We were pretty much doing things remote anyway, you know, everything electronically and stuff like that. But everybody, you know, we're like, oh, we can't show a house. We can't do this. We can't do that. So people had a nice little... yeah, kind of wild time.

It was a forced vacation that a lot of people took. No. I'm an extrovert with ADHD. You have to stay inside and not see people. It'll be great. That's a vacation for sure. Yeah. Like, sorry, can't show a house. Sorry. Yeah, talk about a fight. Essential. Somebody has to deem you essential. Yeah, hopefully we will never have to go through anything like that again, in general. Looking back, I can't wait till history, like somebody teaches history, like 20, 30 years from now. They'll be like, "What was that?"

And if you look back through history at all the other pandemics, you know, swine this flu, that flu, it's like nobody even talks about it. It's like an earmarked page that someone wrote about in their school report, and that's about it. You know, I always question, especially for like the young kids I'm even talking about, are they going to even remember it? It's what happened afterwards that is going to make you remember it.

Yeah, this is just totally off topic. They actually say that children who are underneath the age of three or four, who wore masks, or who did not wear masks but they observed people around them wearing masks, they have a much harder time taking visual facial cues from people, because during their imprinting period, they never learned it. They never learned what a smirk was, what sarcasm was, based upon facial cues. I'm waiting for someone to do a full study on that, but I find it very interesting. I did not know that. Hmm. Like the look of shock on your face. If you were three years old, you may not understand that one. Oh, that's interesting. Huh. Well, then they wouldn't make great realtors. They couldn't interpret things.

So, I'll answer this question and I'll let you take the next one. What do you think makes... I actually wrote "an entrepreneur." What do you think makes either a good partner or a good agent or, you know, a good operator? However you want to answer that. Somebody who likes to deal with people, who can think on their feet and likes to problem solve, and likes customer service. So when I interview agents, or when somebody says, I'm thinking about getting my real estate license, or I'm thinking about getting into real estate because I just love houses and looking at houses, I go, okay, good luck with that.

I got into real estate because I like houses. So, I used to teach a sales qualifying class, and we used to ask people, hey, why did you get into real estate? Oh, I like people. I like houses. Okay. Oh, I want lots of free time. Oh no. I want to make my own schedule. I'm like... That should not be the first question. It shouldn't be the first answer in your interview question. Income. Yeah, unlimited income.

I want to ask one more. When things get tough... cuz as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a real estate agent, when things get tough, and I ask you specifically, cuz listen, you know, and everyone listening to this, if you're a real estate agent or been in sales or an entrepreneur or business owner, you know times get tough, where you're like, I can't believe I'm actually doing this. What gets you through that?

Oh, every agent knows this, every season. Doesn't matter if you've been doing it 1 year, 10 years, or 30 years. You always go, where's the business going to come from? What's going on? Nothing's happening right now. And you can ask my husband, because it happens the same time every year. I go, "Oh my gosh, it's just so slow right now. What's going to happen?" He goes, "I should record you every year. You say the same thing at the same time every year."

There's just the season where, you know, things tend... they are a little bit slow. And as a business owner or entrepreneur, if you're not working, you're not getting paid. You know, there is no safety. There is no, oh, I can rely on a check every 2 weeks no matter what, no matter how much I work or how little I work, I'm getting paid. In real estate, and in whatever self-employed business, if you're not working, if you're not, you know, filling that pipeline, keeping that momentum going, you know, there's no paycheck.

I like that answer, but that's the answer everybody gives. Hey, work harder, put that there. And where I'm trying to go is maybe a little bit deeper, if you're open to that. So, like, for me, when I'm, you know, crap day, something's going on, I'll go for a walk, I'll go for a drive, I'll do some... Like, what centers you? Cuz as a broker, you know things can blow up all the time. As a business owner, things can blow up all the time. Like, what brings you back, besides, oh, I should just keep working?

So, when I have those days when I'm like, oh, where's the business going to come from? Or when I have a moment that I think somebody's mad at me, like a client's mad at me, cuz I think maybe I've done something wrong, because that's what I do, I constantly have to remind myself, people aren't mad at you. Okay. But what keeps me in this business is that there is going to be business. There is always going to be business, and I'm okay, and I just have to trust.

What do you mean, trust? I have to trust in my faith, and I trust in God that the business is going to be there, and I don't need to worry about where the money is going to come from. I just have to chill out. I like that you said to chill out. And not worry. Not be anxious. So, be anxious for nothing, and do not fear. And I just have to keep telling myself that and center myself. I literally say over and over in my head, be anxious for nothing. And I pray. And so I sit and I pray, and that's what centers me and brings me back down to, everything is okay. The business will come, and when it does, you work it one client at a time. And that's that.

Thank you for sharing that. And you know, if you're a religious person, non-religious person, I think we all quote-unquote pray to a certain extent. Either, you know, you have a conversation... well, I'm out walking, talking to myself. I think we all do some form of that. And I appreciate that, cuz a lot of people wouldn't say that's what they do. And so I appreciate you sharing that with us.

I think for fear of, right, being canceled. And obviously, in this business, you have to be careful about what you say. So I think we police ourselves a lot about what we say and what we do. It's real estate, and there's a lot of gray area, but too, you know, you don't want to lose business, right? Sometimes. But you know, if you're trusting that you're not going to lose business and business is going to come, then I shouldn't be worried. You know, I shouldn't be worried about that.

I know me and JMan have said this before. It's like the real estate rule is the same rule as they have in bars: no religion or politics. Spirituality is fine. Being political to a certain extent is fine. But if you go extreme religion or extreme politics, again, you always have to be careful what you say. But I don't think anyone ever has a problem with spirituality. I really don't. I think that's always okay, cuz you know, if you are, if you aren't, we know that people aren't, it's fine.

Yeah. So that's what guides me. That's really what keeps me not worried. Whereas I know a lot of people are out there worried, and where are they going to get the business, or how are they going to make it? And I just trust in Jesus.

And I think that faith aspect is just having faith in whatever, even if it's faith in yourself. And that's what I think goes back to what you originally said, which I pushed a little bit on, is just doing the activities. The faith, I'm going to continue doing the activities. And that's faith. And it's faith in a higher power, faith in yourself, faith in whatever. I think a lot for real estate, especially for entrepreneurs, you have to have faith in yourself. And more importantly, when you step outside that corporate box, I think you have to have a lot of faith in what you're about to do. I don't think you can do that half.

No, you can't. If you're going to go, go all in. And you can't be afraid to make mistakes. You just keep moving, you know. Quick starters is the word that I've heard. Some of the most successful people have been quick starters, but then if it doesn't work, then don't be afraid to abandon that and quick start something else. Like, if you know it's not working, then stop. Don't try to push it. Be the first to fail. The first-to-fail principle, in like the dot com and the entrepreneur of the tech world. First to fail. That's what you want to be.

What's the one piece of advice for someone who's listening or watching now that really wants to walk away... not really wants to, they dream of walking away from a steady paycheck for the first time, because they want to leave that corporate box? Like, what kind of advice would you give them? If you have savings, right? If you have 6 months saved up, 6 months to a year of savings, walk away now. What are you waiting for? You have money saved up. Walk away, and then go do it. Put one foot in front of the other. Go. Go. What are you waiting for?

Just do it. Like literally, what are you waiting for? Your happiness. Why are you waiting for somebody to tell you something that you know you want to do? Trust. If you have the savings... some people are afraid of leaving that comfort zone. Get uncomfortable. Yeah.

Listen, I have forced myself to be uncomfortable, and be confrontational. Like, that's my worst thing. And I'll make an analogy here. I hate confrontation. And when I say confrontation, it doesn't even have to be like aggressive. It can be like, I need to talk to somebody about a situation, and they may be heightened about it. Like, they may be emotional about it. And I have to talk to them, and it just... like, my stomach gets sick. That's confrontation to me. I force myself to do that. And it's uncomfortable. But the more I do it, the better I get at it.

The last question, same kind of question we sit with at the end of every episode. What would you go back and tell little Lindsay? She's sitting there as an admin. You know, what would you go back and tell yourself on day one? Don't be afraid to get uncomfortable. That's what I'd go back and tell myself. Don't be afraid to get uncomfortable. So, get uncomfortable earlier. Yeah. And more often. Yeah, and do the hard thing. I like that a lot. Thank you for that.

So, Lindsay, before we wrap, where can people find you, follow the new radio show, and listen to the podcast? Yeah, so we have a new radio show, Melissa and I, coming out on WHCU 607 NewsTalk Radio, every Saturday. They can find us there. It's called Knock Knock Property Talk. I like that. That's a great name. And they can also find me in a couple places, undercontracttakingbackup.com. That has all of our... everywhere you can find our podcast, on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. And then if they want to find me personally as a realtor, it's hartnhomes.com. And the radio show is Saturdays at 9:30 a.m. Correct.

Lindsay, thank you so much. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate you sharing with us. I appreciate you being all open with us also. This has been fun. It's been eye-opening. I'm a lot older than I feel.

Well, thank you again. And for those listening or watching, if this conversation hit you the way it hit us, please share it. Send it to somebody who's in the middle of their own moment, trying to make a move. Subscribe if you haven't already, and next Monday we've got another one you don't want to miss. Now go make it happen. But before you go, a quick thank you to our founding partners, Wise Agent, Subi, and The CE Shop. They make this show possible, and they're building tools that actually help people in this industry. Check them out. All the links are in the show notes. And thank you, Lindsay, for spending some time with us. And thank you to everyone listening or watching. That is not something we can take lightly. Now go make it happen.