We Were the Corporate Box (Founders Episode)

They woke up every single morning saying this is what I love doing. That was my professional life. I think what happens is when your work, in any work or anything you're with, becomes your identity, when that stops, either by choice or by if it's taken away from you, that hurts. Comfort is the world's greatest addiction. It's more addictive than any drug, any alcohol, anything else. The most addictive thing in the world is comfort.

We are at our best when we have no other options. There's no plan B for me. Bills don't stop, kids don't stop going to private school, mortgages don't stop having to be paid. Like there's no other option. Maybe that's what was needed in order to free us up to help more people, right? If we stayed there and we were comfortable and we just kept on, cuz this is great and we didn't know anything else, then who knows what it, what might happen.

Welcome to Outside the Corporate Box. I'm JMan alongside Jeffrey Scott Stanton, and this episode is brought to you by our founding partners Wise Agent, Subi, and The CE Shop. These are the companies that believe in us and what we're building here. We're grateful to have them in our corner.

The playbook is changing. The question is, are you changing with it? This is Outside the Corporate Box, real conversations with real leaders who broke the mold and built something better, with your hosts JMan and Jeffrey Scott Stanton.

There is a moment in every person's life when the floor disappears. Maybe it's a phone call, maybe it's a meeting, maybe it's a message you didn't see coming, but the floor is gone. And you're still standing where you were a second ago, except now everything has changed. For me and the person next to me, that moment hit both of us around the same time. Same place, same kind of decision, same exact moment. Neither one of us chose it, neither one of us saw it coming.

And looking back now, it might be the best thing that has ever happened to either one of us. This is the story of what happened when we had no other options, and why that turned out to matter more than anything we had ever planned. I'm JMan. The person right next to me is Jeffrey Scott Stanton. Hello. Good day, sir.

Now, we didn't plan this show or this podcast ahead of time, right? This show kind of exists because of a moment that we went through and changed both of our lives, right? Today we're going to talk about it. Not the polished version, or no, we're not going to get into the details, but it's the moment that brought us to where we are today and what we're building and how we're really trying to change the world, right? We are at our best, I feel like, when we have no other options. When the safety net is gone, when going back is not on the table, and we're going to tell you why.

Jeremias, take us back before everything changed. What was your professional life, you know, what did that look like? What were you doing? You know, your role, your identity inside that world.

I loved my professional life, and for a good portion, I guess we'll talk about this later too, my professional life was my identity. You know, I was executive vice president of learning development for Douglas Elliman Real Estate, and with that company for 10 years of my professional life. I ran learning and development, training, coaching to a certain extent, for 6,000, 7,000 plus agents across one of the most well-known, well-respected luxury brands in real estate. And I thoroughly enjoyed what I did.

I woke up every single morning saying this is what I love doing. That was my professional life. I think every day I woke up saying this is cool that I get to do this for a living. That's the best way I can describe it.

Yeah, and I know everywhere you went, you were branded. Absolutely. All the time. And that tells me, even before we were at the same place, like that was your identity. Oh, absolutely. And it's like, you know, the whole point is outside the corporate box, is people were inside the corporate box, and I absolutely was, 100% inside the corporate box. And I think that's good for a lot of people. I think what happens is when your work, and any work or anything you're with, becomes your identity, when that stops, either by choice or by if it's taken away from you, that hurts.

You know, I know we've had this conversation, because you worked for me. Right. I mean, and that's the flip side of it, is you were inside that role, you're able to affect change or make decisions that you felt were for the better of, you know, the best interest of the company, the agents. Like, who can we bring in to help them? And honestly, to a certain extent, I think what we were doing was best for the industry, too. Yeah. I don't think it was just about, like, hey, the organization we were in. I think what we did was, like, we did a lot of stuff that was, you know, changing for the industry, I think.

Well, and I could definitely say I was with you on that journey for four tenths of the time. But it's, it was, the timing had to be right, and eventually it was, where, you know, I wasn't going to move to New York City. It was a remote role, it was during the pandemic, and it kind of, like, worked out perfectly where I was, from afar, able to help agents with this. You know, you brought me on as national trainer and only doing what I love to do, you know, social media, video, tech, AI, like all that stuff.

And it's funny, cuz I think to a certain extent that I kind of, like, pulled you into that corporate box. Because it was like we had known each other and we're friends, and, you know, along the same circuits, and saw each other at conferences and that type of stuff. And I remember bringing you in, and I remember your first Zoom that we brought you in for at that time was like 7 or 800 people. We're on that Zoom, I'm like, all right, this is cool. And, you know, it's funny, because when you're pulled outside that box, or walk outside the box, and you're no longer in the box, stuff changes. It really does. What about you?

Yeah, I mean, for me, yeah, I was like, I felt like I was pulled into a box. Well, here, let me say this. I've never put you into a box. No, you didn't. You asked me politely. You're like, it's great in here. Come on, the water's warm. And I think for me, what was different is that I've never been part of a corporate environment my whole life. Like, I've been either in sales or an entrepreneur since I was 19 years old. And I was like, I just don't know if this was for me. And then, you know, after a while, with the work and the mission and the vision of what we're doing, I was like, yeah, I could rock with this, you know? Every once in a while I had to be reminded, like, you're in a corporate box. You can't do that. You can't do that.

And that's hard for somebody who's used to the, well, I wouldn't want to say freedom, but like. You had to learn, probably, and this is my observation of you, you had to learn to work inside those boundaries. You had to learn to work inside those boundaries. And it wasn't as easy for you as it was for me, because before that I came from a mortgage banking background, which is a very structured background. It's like, you're a mortgage banker, you know, it's not that, hey, I was a real estate agent and then I got into this. I was a mortgage banker, I was a real estate agent, and then, you know, all that during time I got into training and just wound up in that corporate box, and I honestly never wanted to be in the corporate box.

And, you know, I'll say this. The person who I went to work for originally, probably one of the most captivating leaders, captivating speakers, captivating people that you could ever meet. And I remember sitting down with her and having a conversation and saying, like, I want to work for this woman. Like, that's what got me into that corporate box, and again, a lot of it became my identity, and I know some of it became your identity. I probably did more of the identity thing than you, but I know anytime you work with someone who's a brand, who's a name, who's a big thing. A household name. A household name, it becomes like, hey, listen, if you work for Google, you'd walk around and say I work for Google, cuz everybody knows it. Like, it's that same principle. You'd be wearing that Google shirt, like, you know, that type of thing.

And so if somebody had asked you that just the week before everything changed for you, where would you be 5, 10 years from now? Right? If we're doing the business session. Same thing. Same thing. Same company. Same thing. Yeah. Same thing, nothing would have, I don't think anything would have changed. That's what I expected to do. And what's funny, because you think about, like, what changed, you think a lot does when something like that happens, and initially, you know, my first thought was, oh crap, everything's different now. And for a little while it was. And I think what really life happened is that even now I'm doing the same thing I was doing then, but I'm just doing a better version of it, because I'm doing it for me. Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally agree. It's just like, you don't have to check with any. There isn't a meeting that's required. And that was one of the things that always, like, we're going to have a meeting. Why can't we just do it? Let's just do it. Let's do it. But then that's within any corporate box. Any corporate box is, you know, there's people who make decisions, people you have to bring the decisions. There's those meetings. And I don't think that matters, I don't think what company you work for, down from, you know, if you're the janitor and want to do something, or if you're the CEO and want to do something, there's always meetings around it.

Well, take me to the moment, okay? We don't need to know the where you were. Kick in the face. Or, yeah, that's how it felt. Tell me how it felt. Tell me. Yeah, that's how it felt. Kick in the face. What was the feeling? No, I'm wrong. It wasn't a kick in the face. It's, your identity is just taken away. A kick in the stomach. You know, like when you're a little kid and you know something's wrong. Or maybe you did something wrong, but you didn't do something wrong, one of your friends did something wrong. It's like one of those, when your mom and dad yelled at you and you felt it. Like, it's not the same thing, but that's that same visceral gut feeling of, I just got kicked in the stomach, is probably the feeling.

It's disappointment. It's disbelief. It's confusion. You know, I think you run through so many emotions. Anytime you're leaving a job, or you're leaving a job by choice or not by choice, there's always, you know, it's probably the best. This is my analogy, and I've used the analogy when I left mortgages to get into real estate, and I think the analogy still stands up now. It's like a person you love dearly who you know you can no longer be with. It's hard to describe that feeling, but that's the best way to describe it.

Yeah, just a little detail there is that you still really love that person. Yeah. Right? Because it's not like, there's people that they get fired or whatever, and they're like, I don't care, I hated this job anyways, whatever, I'm out. Right? And then there's like peace. Yeah. And then there's like, what do you mean we're breaking up? Yeah. To use that same example, like, what do you, like, I just bought an engagement ring. I'm ready to be here forever. Like, you tattooed. Yeah, I got a tattoo of your name. On my neck, right here. So, it was all those feelings. Yeah, and again, to me, cuz it's my identity, and I had to learn, I learned fairly quickly. Told by the minute.

What about for you? What was the feeling like? Betrayal. Oh, good one. Okay. If I had to think of the very first, cuz it's almost when you're giving everything and doing all the things and more, and you're happy at what you're doing, and you're getting good feedback, and the people that you're interacting with are like, man, it's so great, to then have the adverse outcome. I sat in silence for, I don't know, 10, 20 minutes, in dis-, like, is this really happening? Like, how could it? And that was, and like you said, I mean, kicked in the nuts is a better analogy if I'm being.

Yeah, well, it's that stomach feeling. It's that weird, like, it's, listen, anyone who's ever, listen, grief. You know me, I do a lot of analogies. I believe business is a lot like personal relationships. There's a lot of overflow. People don't do separate things. No, they really are very, very similar, especially the business we're in. It's very similar to, like, a personal relationship.

And it's one of those where it's like you go through a set of emotions. And again, I think that's no matter what company that you leave, there's like loss. There's like grief. Yeah, there's grief you go through psychologically, you know. I don't remember, I should remember this stuff, but I don't. It's like anger, grief, sadness, bargaining. Like, you go through, and then eventual acceptance. Yeah, and eventual acceptance. I just think we all go through it at different time frames, I guess, depending on how long we've been there.

Yeah, I think it should have been, is, was much longer for you than it was for me, but I think the misconception that I got from people, they'd be like, oh, well, you'll be fine, you have your real estate business and your speaking business. And it's like, when you pour everything into one cup because you're so committed to it, I'm not marketing myself as a speaker for the last 4 years. Yeah. And for mine, the last 10 years. Right. My wife and I have a real estate team. She's doing most of that. I'm just kind of, have my pulse on it to help agents so that I kind of know what's going on in real estate. So it's still like I'm sitting there going, what am I going to do now? You know, it's like I didn't have a plan. There was no exit strategy, cuz you didn't, we didn't see it coming.

Yeah, and you know what? I think one of the things people don't talk about when you leave any position, I don't think this matters for any job that I've had, I think it matters the same, I think it matters to anyone who's inside a corporate box, and even, like, an entrepreneur if it doesn't work out, is this. Your phone used to ring from 8:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night. And, you know, all of a sudden it stops. And it's weird, cuz I spoke to someone else who went through something similar, that had reached out to me probably like a week or two afterwards, and said the same thing. He goes, what you're going to realize, you're not on all the time anymore. He goes, and you're like me, you fed on being on all the time. And I said, yeah. And he goes, you're going to realize your phone's going to ring less. There's less emails. There's less text messages. And it hit me. I'm like, it's getting kind of lonely.

Yeah. Cuz you're so used to that interaction with people. Literally, for me it was from, you know, 8:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night. That was, you know, people texting, people emailing, people calling. So you got people on the West Coast, it's still 4:00 or 5:00, calling you. Yep. Yeah. I think that's what it is. It literally is like, what do I do now? Yeah. And for me, it didn't start out with, what am I going to do now for work? It was, what am I going to do now? Like, yeah. Yeah, it was, like, sad.

And to me, and I don't know if I had the conversation with you, oh, I did have the conversation with you. But I had written a whole big thing about when your identity is attached to something it shouldn't be attached, cuz my identity was attached. Like, listen, I could pick up the phone and call anybody in the industry and say, hey, Jeff Stanton, blah blah blah. I would get the return phone call. They pick up the phone call. And then you realize when you don't have that title anymore, those people who you thought were friends, you know, they don't pick up the phone. And you start to realize that, and that hurts. Yeah, it is, cuz you thought some of these people were actually friends, and you realize they weren't friends, it was business.

And again, my identity is no longer that. What's cool about a reinvention, cuz I think that's part of what me and you are doing right now, I think what's cool about a reinvention is that you can be anything you want to be. Like, I don't need to lead with. You don't have to check with anybody. Yeah, and I don't need to lead with, I'm from, you know, I don't need to do, do you know who I am? Like, I am, yeah. Jeffrey Scott Shapiro. Stanton. Yeah, and I think that's a huge difference.

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I think what I've come to believe is, like, and we did, and it came up in one of our other interviews, like, we're at our best when we have no other options, right? Like, when Eric said burn the boats, it's like, I don't have a, there's no plan B for me. Like, bills don't stop, kids don't stop going to private school, mortgages don't stop having to be paid. Like, there's no other option. So we have no choice but to succeed. Yeah, and this, the whole thing, we knew the same, is like, put our backs to the walls. You know, we're coming out swinging. You know, there is no choice.

It's the old, I think it was a Japanese proverb, get knocked down six, stand up seven. It's like, I think both of us have that personality. I think that's why we work well together and we have the friendship we do, is because, like, you can't really knock us down. You can. Everybody can get knocked down. But it's like we brush ourselves off and stand up. And I know I had the conversation with you before and you're like, I'll just get up. Like, I'm fine. All right, fine. Like, we'll call each other out on this stuff, too. Let's go. Yeah, like, let's go, let's do this. Got to go. And you're like, but wait, we need directions to get there. Yeah, that's still some of the cardboard box coming out of me.

So, yeah, go ahead. No, and so I was going to do, and so, you know, we had discussions separately and together about, like, hey, what's next? What do we do next? What's, like, the next thing? And I think the whole entire circumstance freed us up to do bigger and better things. You know, and this is the one thing. Like, we're award-winning. You know, that's all I'll say. We're award-winning. You know, and it's some of those, I literally have the awards right there. And I think it's funny, cuz I look up at them and it's like, oh, this is great. It's almost like, you know, if you have a picture of you and your high school buddies on the wall. Like that one photo, and you look up and it's like you kind of reminisce a little bit. That's why I have them there. It literally might, look up at that, that's the feeling that I get, is that reminisce of, like, hey, that was a cool time. And I can honestly say I enjoyed the entire time. I really did. I don't think there's anything about that time that I didn't enjoy. I don't think, I can't think of, top of my head.

So, what does no other options actually teach you about yourself? It teaches you if you're fight or flight. When you have no other options, it teach you, well, there's the thing. And I'm a firm believer of this. You always have an option. Most people just choose not to choose. And I think the difference, like, me and you have over a lot of other people, we always see other options. We always see a different way. Oh, can we do this? Can we do that? Should we do this? Should we do that? It's not that, hey, that's the only option or there is no option. You know, I think it's like a fool's choice saying, oh, there's no option, so I'm not going to do anything. No, you're just choosing not to choose something because you don't think you have an option. I know this is a big circle, but it's probably the best way I can say it.

I mean, is there something inside you that needs the pressure? Like, you can't perform without it. I feel like there is. I think that's in both of us. You put us under any pressure, and I think we perform best under pressure. And I think that goes with, you know, we both done speaking, we both do speaking, we both been in front of large audiences. I think that pressure is what makes us good in front of those large audiences. That pressure, like, a lot of times pressure crumbles things. With us, it's like the diamond, you know, the pressure builds the diamond to something better than a chunk of coal. If it's just a rock, a lot of times the pressure breaks up the rock. Not the rock rock, you know, that's a different rock.

Sometimes you're just a rock with salty water on you. Sometimes you're just a rock with salty water on you. Okay. I don't know what a rock is. You're at the beach? Yeah, the water hitting it, you know. It actually erodes it. Yeah, I think we're both that type that, you know, under pressure we perform the best. Well, and I think that's what you, like, the fight or flight. When you train yourself, here's pressure, run away or run towards. Once you train yourself to, okay, something's happening, let's go towards it. And I think that, like you said, that's years of training, really, to condition your mind to be used to it.

You always make fun of me, that you laugh when you see me running in the rain, but it's just years of, like. I laugh, but, you know, I laugh, but I totally respect that. I totally respect you. Yeah, but it's also years of, like, conditioning. I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. I like it. I like it. I love it. I LOVE IT. Because I then know that I can, it becomes part of you. Yeah, I know that nobody else is crazy enough to be out here doing this at this time. So, that equals life. When things are hard, I am going to smile, because I've conditioned myself to keep doing it over the years.

Yeah. I think, you know, I think one of the things that a lot of people, looks outside the box, I think one of the things that people who want to be outside the box, who want to leave corporate positions, you know, I think we have a guest who says, you know, if you have 6 months of your savings, then go ahead, do it. I don't necessarily know if, I mean, it's a smart thing to do, but I think a lot of times if you have a safety net, you don't go out and do it. Or you don't do it all the way. Cuz you have that, it's that agent, oh, I work part-time, so I'm going to do real estate part-time, cuz I want this, you know. You're never going to be great at multiple things. You know, it's the jack of all trades, master of none.

And I think that's part of being outside the corporate box, is looking at, like, what can I do to be successful on my own now? Cuz I think that's what me and you are at, is like, what are we going to do to be successful? Because I truly don't think any company anybody works for defines their success. I think what they do defines their success. And I think, again, I told you that was part of my problem, is my identity was that. My identity was that, but now I know it doesn't matter what company I work for, what I do. I'm in charge of my own destiny. I'm in charge of my own success. You're in charge of your own success.

And I think what says a lot, too, is that we're both sitting here doing the same thing at the same exact time right now. You know, we didn't have to. You know, I think we both see a lot of things the same way, and I think ultimately what we're doing now is, you know, we get to help more people. Yeah, and I think it's this podcast specifically, it's like we're trying to create something here where maybe this happens to you, too. You're not ready, but you're listening to this and now you're like, hmm, I don't know, last quarter they said profitability. You might see the writing on the wall, right?

Or you're like, you've been trying to, you got two toes in each, you know, one in the corporate box and one in your side hustle, which at one point you want to make your main hustle, which we hear all the time in real estate, especially in bigger cities where, like, average price point might be a little bit higher. And you're like, oh, I just wish with all my heart and soul that I could just quit this job and go do what I really love. And then it's like, so, do it. Yep. Cuz once you pull that energy from there and put it to what you love doing, it's going to be exponentially great. Can't do what you love for someone? Do what you love for yourself.

You know, I think that's a lot of things. I think a lot of people think, I need to do this for someone. I need to be in that, I need that structure. Listen, if you're a person who needs structure, you should stay inside the corporate box, unless you're the person who can give yourself your own structure. You know, I think once you get outside the corporate box, be it, you know, if you worked for Google or you worked for whoever, and you're getting into real estate, becoming an entrepreneur, I think the biggest thing that you need is discipline. Is that self-discipline. Cuz, you know, discipline beats hard work every single time. Every single time, discipline beats smart, discipline beats hard work, because when you're disciplined and keep on doing it and doing it and doing it, you can outwork anyone. Doesn't matter how stupid or smart you are. If you're disciplined and you keep on doing it, you get up every single morning, you make those phone calls, you get up every single morning, you start a podcast, you get up every single morning and you're on a role play call. You know, I think that's what makes people successful outside the box.

It does sound, no, doesn't it? It's weird, because, two things. Do you look back down and wish you were never there? And do you look back down and wish it never happened? No. And, you know, somebody told me once, like, we have survived the hardest moments of our entire life, and that's what makes us who we are. And I think part of, like, that experience, but also how it ended, maybe that's what was needed in order to free us up to help more people, right? Maybe, you know, if we stayed there and we were comfortable and we just kept on, cuz this is great and we didn't know anything else, then who knows what might have happened.

I did a post the other day, which, comfort is the world's greatest addiction. It's more addictive than any drug, any alcohol, anything else. The most addictive thing in the world is comfort. And I truly believe that. It's comfortable in where you are, and it's comfort, just not change. People don't like change, and I think sometimes change has to be forced upon people. And when change is forced upon people, I think people start, you know, at first it's like, again, that kick in the gut. And then if you're the type of people like we are, where it's like, you can kick me, but you're not going to keep me down, I'm going to do what I need to do, I think then you'll always be successful. Like, I have no doubt in my mind that you and me will always be successful, no matter what we do.

Yeah, I mean, when my kids were growing up, they're still growing up, they're 10 and 15, but when they were younger, one of the sayings we always used to have was, like, always be ready. Like, and they'd be walking around the house, like, always be ready. Let's go. You know, you got to be ready. And I think I wasn't following my own advice, cuz I wasn't ready. Right? And so again, like, there's a message for somebody else who's out there. Just always be ready for the unexpected.

I think if I look at my life, it is cyclical. It's like comfortable, comfortable, comfortable, comfortable, wham, something comes along. Pandemic, boom. I got a great speaking business. Guess what sucks, that I thought was recession proof? A speaking business when you can't be around people. And then I had to grow a whole, like, you know, virtual business and do that virtually. And then that went well until, and it keeps, you know, cyclical. Got to keep going.

So I'm going to ask you this question. You can ask it back to me, but you may have just answered it. If somebody were to ask you now, like, or let's do this. Or if you went back and said something to yourself 5 years ago, 4 years ago, whatever it is, what would you tell yourself? Don't get too comfortable. Yeah. I think it's, you know, you have these parts of yourself, parts of your identity, if we go back to the beginning, right? Yep. That you shouldn't get rid of. Like, these are all cups that I fill up. And if you spend too much time filling up one cup, these other ones run dry. Yeah. And I think it's don't get too comfortable, and always be ready. What about you?

I'd say the same thing. Don't get too, I would, this is what I'm, this is actually what I'd say to myself. Do what you love, no matter what. Do what you want to do and what you think is right, no matter what. Because as long as you're serving other people something of value, you're valuable, no matter what you do and no matter where you go. Doesn't matter if you're valuable inside that box or outside that box. If you serve people something of value, you can do that anywhere, for anybody, including for yourself. I love that.

Well, we're going to end there, folks. You know, we started this episode with a moment, the kind where the floor disappears. And it felt at that time like something was being taken away. But sitting here now, recording this, having this conversation, I think that that moment might have been what we were waiting for, and when everything was given. So, Jeffrey, one last question, if we keep it in the format of Outside the Corporate Box. That's right. If that moment never happened, if your world stayed the same. Yep. I'm sorry, go ahead. Continue the question? Would you still be there?

Yes. I think, no matter what, I will always do what I love to be doing. No matter what, no matter where. I will always do what I love to be doing. And when I no longer love doing what I'm doing, that's when I will stop doing it. Either for somebody else or for myself. I'll ask you the same question. Well, folks, that's our, yeah, you're going to ask me the same question? Yeah, might as well. You ended that way with asking me the question. Let me ask you the same question. Yeah, I mean, if you're there, I'm there. We already know that. I think we agree that we said, yeah. We already know.

But listen, folks, this is our story. But the show, this podcast, is not about us, right? This is what allowed us to create this, to help you. And every Monday we're going to sit down with someone who had their own moment, their own disruption, whether it's their own choice or somebody else's, right? And we find out what happens next. So if you've ever had a moment like that, or you're in one right now, this is your show. Welcome to Outside the Corporate Box.

Share this with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe if you have not already. And we will see you next Monday. But before we let you go, we want to say thank you to our founding partners, Wise Agent, Subi, and The CE Shop. They make this show possible, and they're building tools that actually help people in this industry. Check them out. All the links are in the show notes. And thank you for spending your time with us. It's not something we take lightly. I'll go make it happen. Thank you.